Lol 99% of mobile devices not made by Apple. Apple operating systems are based on BSD, not Linux.
Mobile devices doesn’t necessarily just mean smartphones, but I’m also curious about the statistic
I think it is a meme not a text book
revises notes
Android accounts for 70% of mobile devices worldwide. Not the 99% listed but still the majority share.
pretty sure they weren’t talking about smart phones exclusively:
mobile device ≠ smart phone
could be anything from smart watches, to portable gaming, to health trackers/monitors, baby monitors, etc.
when you add everything up, it’s probably somewhere around 75-85%
although i tried to search for a better number than a guesstimate and…yeah that’s borderline impossible; all the results get spammed with smart phone OS numbers and google thinks it’s smart to ignore search parameters…
maybe someone with better google-fu can get a better number: i just took the average smart phone number and added a couple percent on top.
99% is an exaggeration, but 75-85% sounds about right!
especially once you factor in things like raspberries and other small IoT devices, which could reasonably fall under “mobile” devices…but then the definition of “mobile” gets murky…
The playstation? Yep, based on BSD too. This os why we call the bsd license a cuck license.
Permissive open-source licenses suck, and so does BSD.
Copyleft and GPL are the only sane choices.
BSD is indeed a cuck license.
What’s the difference?
The difference is that with permissive licenses everyone can take any amount of code, add literally whatever and make it all proprietary. This way, things like MacOS, as well as gaming console firmware for example, were made.
Licenses like GPL don’t allow you to do that - if you borrow anything GPL, you have to make your creation open-source, or else a juicy lawsuit awaits you, technically on copyright basis. For example, Android as a base OS is open-source simply because it uses code from Linux kernel, and the latter is licensed under GPLv2.
The latter is superior since it propagates the open-source code by forcing everyone who used the free code to share their code as well. This proved to be very useful with even corporations having their hands tied into showing the code, ensuring transparency and security for everyone.
That does sound better!
Android uses linux code though, how do they get away with licensing under apache
GPL is one-way compatible with Apache - that is, you can license programs made with GPL code under Apache, the latter being open-source, even though permissive.
you can license programs made with GPL code under Apache
No, it’s the other way around. The GPL doesn’t allow you to remove the user protections.
Wait so are Samsung devices open sourced as well?
If your Samsung device uses clean Android, then you run open source OS. Otherwise, nah.
Yes, but it wouldn’t be accurate to say the entire device is. There are multiple pieces of software that are in use on modern Android phones, and some are under copyleft licenses while some pieces are proprietary. https://opensource.samsung.com
One is free (as in air) the other is not.
They’re both free software licences (i.e. you can get the source code for for BSD licenced software and GPL licenced software that you’re using at no extra charge and modify it as you please). The GPL licence has an additional restriction for developers that says if you use any GPL code in your codebase, your entire codebase must also be GPL or some other compatible open source licence.
This means that if I made some code parses a file format and another developer includes that code in their program to support that file format, they’re now forced to licence their whole codebase with a similar licence to the GPL. If it was BSD then they would only have to mention that they used my BSD licenced code and include a copy of that licence. A user would then be able to go and see my original code that was used, but not the rest of that application’s code or any modifications that the application author made to my code. Because the GPL is too restrictive for most developers here, there’s a version of the GPL called the LGPL which is often used for code meant to be used by other programs which is closer to the BSD licence but additionally requires that if they modify your code, they must also share that modified code.
I usually use a licence in the middle called the MPL (Mozilla Public Licence), which is similar to the LGPL but has a few things I prefer and has the advantage for me of not being connected to the FSF and GNU project.
I prefer copyleft licenses too, but I really like BSD for servers and raspberry PIs. Very stable, modern packages, modern versions of security relevant packages like openSSH.
Shh - we don’t need the fanboys to experience this. What would happen to arch forums if they did!??!
Probably nothing?
I see, makes practical sense. I’ve heard some good things about BSD from home server operators
In what universe does Linux run on 99% of mobile devices? Android is nowhere near 99% market share, and iPhones are not and never have been based on Linux.
think it is based on BSD?
Yep, from way way back. BSD -> NextStepOS -> OS X -> iOS
The original saying was “UNIX”. I thinkthe meme’s OP just messed up when “meme-fying” the old saying because they probably never heard of UNIX.
macOS is certified UNIX. I don’t think the other Darwin OSes are. Though it’s more a licensing thing iirc
OP would have been eaten by the dinosaurs.
BSD with Mach as the kernel.
Yeah, not GNU/Linux
Honestly, the only thing that’s keeping linux from taking over desktop is unreliable gaming experience. Most distros are already easy to install and use anyway. If it had a gaming experience as smooth as Windows it would be the norm.
Nah, the real reason is that Linux doesn’t come pre-installed on new devices. The average user doesn’t even know that you can install a different operating system. This is a much larger hurdle than the gaming experience.
I’ve already seen 2 people sell their laptops as broken because they forgot the Windows login password.
Damn, I wish people stupid as this would live in Europe since every time it’s someone in the us finding deals like this
Found in Slovakia and Czech Republic on Aukro.sk (auctioning site)
I wish I could find such on Avito in my city
Oh damn I have to look better then (thanks for the tip, haven’t looked there) (yes you might’ve guessed I also come from the cz/sk area)
It also kinda fits, I have met more people that know nothing about things like this than those who know
If you’re from Czech republic, then use Aukro.cz as that’s the Czech version. It was just recently re-introduced to Slovakia.
I know, why would I use a slovak website when I know the czech one exists (but yeah you had no way to tell if I knew, thanks for telling me either way)
This isn’t even remotely accurate. The average person isn’t a PC gamer.
The reason is because for the average person, Windows “works”. It works with the applications they know, it looks and acts like they remember, they can get it repaired, and there is zero incentive to change.
Furthermore, Linux isn’t as user-friendly as Windows on the desktop. The average user doesn’t give a fuck about the terminal, privacy, ads, or any of the shit other people care about.
When someone creates a distro that has 99% support for all Windows applications, zero maintenance, no need to ever touch a terminal or change a config file, and comes preinstalled on the crappy machines they buy from the supermarket, then Linux has a chance.
The average user does not use a variety of apps either. All they need is a browser, a rich text editor, a simple image editor, a video player and maybe a messenger. All but the browser can be effectively substituted by web apps nowadays, so the browser is pretty much the only thing they really need. But then, they’re better off with a chromebook, as it doesn’t offer as much options to brick itself.
Honestly, I’d love a “Your Grandma Can’t Brick This” distro.
Numerous times I’ve heard Linux Mint be referred to as exactly this! :)
The funny part is some distros like that are perfect for the other extreme that basically just needs a browser and maybe a way to write letters or print things.
Mint is very GUI-heavy and tries to keep itself out of the box and simple to maintain while staying out of the way.
…and tech support scammers have no idea what “a linux” is half the time, for added benefit. Lol
IMO Mint is more “Your Mum Can’t Brick This”. I wouldn’t hand it over to my grandma and expect to not get a call in the future saying it’s all gone to shit 😂
Ahh you have one of those truly destructive force-of-nature grandmas that no UX can stop from working over a system until it begs for a complete reformat!
I feel for you <3
… Maybe keep a remote access service like RustDesk handy if she’s more than a few miles away then. 😆
… And install with BTRFS and Timeshift rollbacks.
Haha but I’ve seen it posted multiple times: “I set them up with it and my phone stops ringing for tech support calls and they’re happy with it!” haha. Some like to learn, some don’t sadly.
But YMMV, depending on the appetite for chaos wielded by one’s particular gran-gran. XD
The devil is usually in the details.
OSS rich text editors work, but then you send out the document to someone who has Word and they complain about the formatting since it doesn’t translate some times. Messenger app experience usually goes “Native Windows > Web app > Linux”, at least in the few corporate I used. Stuff like Lark not even being up to date with their web app and Telegram having strange interactions with some window managers.
It works and I gotten people to use raspberry pi instead of their windows computers, but it just feels very unpolished overall.
And then there’s the whole package/flatpack/snap/cosmopolitan thing
True, but Chromebooks are a type of Linux as well.
When someone creates a distro that has 99% support for all Windows applications
This seems to be a common misunderstanding.
It’s not that Linux doesn’t support Windows applications, it’s that the developers of those applications chose to only support Windows. They are different OSes that require executables targeting the platform.Expecting Linux to run .exes built for Windows is like expecting the sea to support your car
Ah - so wine is a lie?
The fact that most pcs ate sold with windows preinstalled is a strong factor too.
“the norm” part isn’t accurate, but if it could match gaming performance/compatibility I know a lot of people who would switch. Myself included.
And seeing as how 2% isn’t a very large percentage (but I think the number of gamers who are sick of windows, or have privacy concerns is quite large), I think it would be a notable increase in the userbase.
Even an increase to 2.5% market share is a 25% boost. A lot of products would be very excited indeed to boost their market share by 25%.
It might even light a tiny, tiny fire under Microsoft that they can’t just keep being shit with no consequences.
Competition (sometimes) breeds innovation.
ads
Tis a lie!
You’re massively overestimating how many people care about gaming on their computers.
Yeah exactly. The desktop stats are the way they are because of business machines mostly needing to run Ms Office. And no, open office etc is no substitute for excel. Yes maybe the most basic of spreadsheets but there are some monster sheets out there in most businesses which use excel only functionality.
I’d argue that those “monster sheets” should not be on excel, but they will figure that out once they have transitioned to the cloud and then their important stuff isn’t accessible one day.
Yeah. I remember checking out scripting in Libre and when you put it next to Excel’s “just press here and write code”, it’s kind of bizzare.
You’re massively overestimating how many people care about gaming on their computers.
We’re all massively overestimating how many people care about their computers.
Sigh ._.
You’re right but it would still be a significant enough jump that it would be noticeable, nothing crazy like doubling or tripling numbers but definitely noticeable. Out of my 4 close friends 3 of us would be on Linux if it wasn’t for games.
That’s not my experience at all. Most people I know who say they can’t use Linux do so because of professional software. Games on Linux have come a long way and unless you insist ob playing windows-only games, you have more games for a Linux than you could play in a lifetime.
Even for games only released for Windows, with proton most of them work, its games with hardware tied intrusive DRM that are most of the ones that have any issue, and honestly, I have no issue boycotting that shit
most games work but have minor annoying issues, even native linux versions.
for example celeste has broken steam overlay (linux native game!!!) if running on amd gpus
In my experience, gaming in Linux works even better than on Windows. Every game I installed so far was supported by proton.
The main thing holding Linux back is professional software I think. If Photoshop and the likes are supported better, a lot of people will switch and find out that they also can play games on Linux.
I get better game performance in Linux, but I still use Windows mostly due to CAD software (just like you’re saying). I hope those companies see the value in developing for Linux, but I’m not sure the statistics are there to convince them yet. Chicken/egg problem?
Have you messed around with Freecad and Librecad?
Don’t know about OP, but I have and do use FreeCAD regularly and it’s a fantastic piece of software - in it’s current form it’s not suitable for use a lot of professional engineering setups.
I’ve used Freecad for a few projects. It’s definitely usable, but the learning curve is really steep, even for someone who already knows other CAD. I don’t think the workflow/features are there yet for being able to use it professionally in most cases. It feels much more like an engineering tool than an industrial design tool, which is part of why I hold that opinion.
I have not used Librecad. It’s 2D, right?
Exactly. I hate how we rely so much on Microsoft office and how it is not available on Linux.
For office, there are great alternatives, imho. LibreOffice, Thunderbird, Obsidian, to name a few. What functions do you need that these don’t offer?
OnlyOffice is mentioned so rarely but it has an UI much more resembling the ribbon based MS Office and in my experience a good compatibility with docx and xlsx files. Don’t know what’s happening when confronted with macro-monsters though.
It seems to format documents differently though. That means it scrambled a few files for a co-worker I sent it to who uses MS Office. Stuff like that never happens with LibreOffice although I like the OpenOffice UI better.
Ah thanks for letting me know. Scrambled sounds dire. Spreadsheets or documents?
Thought the devs nailed it pretty good. At least I never saw differences in my not overly complicated letter layouts when I opened them in MS Office.
Though I had your use-case just with a few rather simple spreadsheets I got from colleagues for me to modify and send back, they never complained.
Anyways I’m glad I don’t have to do with office products very often but I’ll look into OpenOffice as well. Looks indeed very good. Like a streamlined and modern MS Office without ribbons.
This is such a bubbled and disconnected opinion from the greater global population. Please be aware of that fact and don’t let yourself get so bubbled again
I mean, suddenly, its really good. Not seamless as windows currently is but so close. Like 80% of Steam.
I’m on Nobara with KDE, which is based on Fedora but automatically comes with the proprietary drivers and some tweaks specifically for gaming.
Yes - most of Microsoft and Apples income is from gamers. They are huge group compared to the business laptop market
any sources on that?
I’m pretty sure it was sarcasm.
No
Nah although I agree that Linux is a huge sleeping giant, Microsoft systems in general still have a huge hold over quite a lot of things, and also does a good job of providing business as whole to a variety of sub groups, everyone that runs engineering software, antivirus software, hell, SQL databases, even the dating apps, and the creators of spywares, all these things work with Microsoft et al for money, if they had to switch over to using Linux, they would find the same ways they do today to make money, you would see huge increases in use of one common desktop and window manager package, spyware, hacking tools, targeting Qt, supply chain hacking and diversion, gitlab DDOSing, etc.
The reality is that all of these things are things that Microsoft and partners has already had to consider and deal with, so if Ubuntu or Arch were to step into the mainstream marketplace even with OEM support, they would have to face the same scrutiny and problems which someone would eventually expect to have to get paid for to resolve it help out with.
And MS Office
And yet, Linux desktop users insist that it’s a viable consumer OS instead of accepting that they’re using an industrial OS not well suited for the average desktop user.
no ones running linux mint on a server, and most consumers wont run debian or whatever. the point of different distros is different target audiences.
Well aware, but Mint also isn’t broadly consumer ready. It’s ready for power users who don’t mind going into a command line occasionally, or people who have their whole machine locked down and administered by someone else.
Android kind of disagrees with you though
Android’s a pretty big fork of desktop Linux, and it’s not even that usable without Google Play Services, nor is it particularly usable as a desktop operating system.
Android obviously isn’t a good desktop operating system, but it doesn’t fit the description of
an industrial OS not well suited for the average desktop user
it absolutely fits the second part of that sentence:
OS not well suited for the average desktop user
You’re literally just getting hung up on the word industrial and making a pointless semantic argument. Android also isn’t a viable consumer OS without the closed source Google Play Services bundle
The fact that Android is not an “industrial OS” proves that Linux is not just an “industrial OS”. The fact that Android is an “OS not well suited to the average desktop user” does not prove that a Linux is an “OS not well suited to the average desktop user”, so of course I didn’t use it to prove that point.
Even so, you seem to take issue with the point that I did make. Is it, or is it not, “an industrial OS”? They’re your words, don’t come complaining to me because you chose them poorly.
Android also isn’t a viable consumer OS without the closed source Google Play Services bundle
This is patently false. The fact that Google Play isn’t even available in one of Android’s biggest markets, China, should have been a clue.
Bonus:
- The average desktop user seems to be digging those newfangled Chromebooks. What say you about those devices?
- Would you consider BSD to be “an industrial OS not suited for the average desktop user?” Because, cards on the table, the BSD and Linux kernels are quite similar in the grand scheme of things, and one of them has a 17% desktop/laptop market share.
maybe normal users should just get over it, and use the command line once in a while. its really not as hard as people make it out to be, if youre just running basic commands.
Bringing us back to my original comment about Linux desktop users being unable to accept that it’s not consumer ready.
you do realize that people can learn new things. im tired of treating people as clueless ‘consumers’ who just ‘arent tech savvy’. learn the basics of how to use a computer, such as copy/paste, and know how to troubleshoot. thats all im asking.
this wouldnt be too big of a problem if it were something like switching people from ubuntu to arch, or xorg to wayland (as examples of intra-community arguments). but the alternative to linux (for consumers) is windows or mac, which are actively harmful to our society. its not just a matter of linux being easier, faster, simpler, more extensible, or anything, although it is. its about people understanding what corporations are using them for, and the common sense to recognize this.
I know and use Linux as a desktop. I constantly switch back to Windows because Linux flaws aren’t worth my time. It’s not about clueless consumers. It’s about not dealing with an os that actively makes it harder to use your computer than the competition.
And the rest of society is tired of nerds saying garbage like “why doesn’t every single consumer spend a week taking a training course to learn how to use my crappy UX” instead of spending the time to make an intuitive UX that doesn’t need a week long training course.
intuition is subjective
How about, no. I want my computer to work for me. I don’t want to work for my computer. This is why the majority of programmers out there, people who clearly can use the command line, use Windows.
How is it not? You never have to go in a terminal 99% of the time (and on Windows there are those cases as well). The only reasons I use the terminal is either to edit my Nix Flake and
rebuild switch, which is only because I use NixOS and would not be required on Mint, to use Distrobox, which wouldn’t be needed on Mint as 90% of Linux app are either Deb Packages, Flatpaks or Appimages or simply because I find it easier to do some power-user stuff in there. But for the average user on Mint, they wouldn’t even need to touch the terminal.How is it not?
This sentence is a great example of why it’s not:
90% of Linux app are either Deb Packages, Flatpaks or Appimages
exe, msi, sh… It’s honestly not very difficult to get the difference between debs and other formats, and you don’t have to either. You open the app store or download a .deb from a webpage and you’re done.
There’s bits where Linux is too fragmented, but for most distros with a good appstore setup, this flat out isn’t one of them.
I switched recently and it took a while to be a ‘power user’ again, but the mainstream functionality works and makes sense about the same as Windows.
I barely have to use the commandline, that’s more for power users. And that’s on Arch (after configuring everything the way I want). On distros like Mint it’s not even necessary after a fresh install. I used to help people with their pc, and to my surprise I came across Linux Mint multiple times, at older people no less.
I mean, nothing about the os isn’t well suited for consumers. It’s just software isn’t written for it.
Yeah if anything it’s more “consumer friendly” than Windows!
“Oh hey we forced another update on you…anyway can you find the tiny ‘skip for now’ link on like 10 ads before we let you use your property we’re running on? Or you can just do yourself a favor and click on the big bold ‘please daddy Microsoft take care of it all here’s my credit card and I want more ads’ buttons on your way. That’d be great!”
If my 80 year old tech illiterate grandma can use a windows laptop to check her emails and use amazon then it’s user friendly enough. I genuinely shudder at the thought of trying rk coach her through setting up Linux.
Through setting up?! Oh I’m going to get nightmares now!
I just meant “Hey, here’s a computer, that’s the Internet button, there’s a
repositoryapp store with free programs, and occasionally you can click update when it says so and have a nice ol’ time.”Using something like Mint or Elementary to set up a nice padded play pen. XD
Yeah I’m just against invasive commercialization, I don’t envision or encourage trying to move towards “Granny uses Arch btw”
Lmao
what’s the difference between a consumer os and an industrial os in your opinion? I personally really like how linux works on the desktop
If the average user has to interact with a command line interface, EVER, as anything but a truly desperate last resort, with someone holding their hand the whole way through, they’re probably gonna give up and never wanna look back.
A lot of people barely know how to copy and paste, or don’t even know what the phrase “right click” means.
When I did some work from home training a year ago, I looked like a goddamn wizard for knowing how to manage browser tabs and put folders on my bookmarks bar.
TLDR: It needs to just work for people that don’t know jack shit about using a computer, which in a lot of cases it just doesn’t.
This is all very true, but I feel like the society has also failed to properly teach basic IT to the general population. Personal computers are a massively used tool in today’s everyday life and work. It deeply concerns me that even the “tech generation”, i.e. gen z I guess, generally don’t even understand what files and directories are. Generic boomers are even worse because they just never learned anything, even touch screen UIs. These people can just about get by now, but I’m not so sure anymore when we go forward a decade or two when we rely on IT services more and more.
I feel like there was a very short window where PCs were just easy enough to use that most people had one, but the OS experience was just complex enough, with things breaking frequently enough, that you had to learn some basics out of necessity.
Like , I’m a 100% not an IT guy - but I know all sorts of shit that seems like it should be common knowledge, but isn’t. Any time I manage to get something in our IT and software environment functioning at work, or explain the chain of events to some catastrophe based on evidence in our software logs, and I get talked about like some kind of wunderkind, it is frustrating more than anything else.
I’m not some IT genius, I’m your average asshole who knows some basics about the tools we use in 99.9% of the work we do. Chances are if there were more of said assholes we wouldn’t run into the problems I address in the first place. But admittedly, perhaps some of that knowledge/ability to think that way comes from having to figure out shit like why my DOS game wouldn’t work in 1995, or what the fuck that purple monkey Mom downloaded a few years later was actually doing.
Ugh - sorry, this turned into a rant, this kind of shit has been top of mind recently…
Yeah, I am kinda the opposite - I’m halfway through a master’s in software engineering and I work in the field, using Linux at work and Windows on my own PC.
Still, as I never use e.g. Word or other office programs I don’t know jack shit about them. But as one of the family “computer guys” I am constantly asked to help with stuff that I rarely use or even have never used before. If they had the ability to think in the correct way, like how you just mentioned you do, they would be able to resolve at least 70% of the problems pretty effortlessly. Society definitely needs to teach these basics better so that people could just google their problem and deal with it.
At that point they’ll adapt.
They are scared of technology, but when forced to interact with it by themselves, when nobody’s there to help, they learn very quick.
It just requires some short stress and bare minimum effort.
Says someone who grew up with computers.
Yes, and often had no one to help.
Search engines are out there! Also, it is very much proven from personal experience that older generations can troubleshoot issues themselves when I’m not available. They just tell me after the fact.
I helped my neighbor “fix/restore” her computer… which she had already paid someone to backup her files and clean. I showed her how to plug in her external hdd to access her documents, re-signed into her mail client, and re-installed MS Office. And that was pretty much it
While she was looking for her MSOffice product key, I did a quick “systeminfo” in the command prompt; I was just curious about her hardware. She saw the terminal and of course made the comment of “you must be a programmer”… I absolutely am not. I have literally gotten to printf (“Hello, World!”) in C and moved on to another hobby lol
Some people really just don’t mess with computers at all. Of course it seems silly from my perspective to not know how an external hdd works, but I mean… there’s plenty of silly shit I don’t know either. Doesn’t matter, she was stoked to have her system back up like she wanted. But yeah, that was my most recent encounter with someone who really struggled with computers. No shame, cause she surely knows a lot about some stuff that I’m clueless about.
I did install Firefox with ublock just for my own use while I was there, because I refused to use Edge. Maybe she’ll keep it
Not only are there people who don’t mess with computers. There are also people who are just never online. They don’t have internet or even a smartphone to speak of.
They live in a different reality compared to us techies. And they get around just fine.
And no, I am not just talking about the Amish, but people we encounter in our daily lives.
They can be wood workers, plumbers, mechanics even welders, and not ever touch a computer in their lives.
Linuxians need to remember to get out of their bubble sometimes, big parts of the world don’t revolve around computers.
I find this differentiation difficult. Most companies run Windows computers in their non IT office functions. The ones that don’t mostly use Mac OS.
Given that any reasonable company IT is not allowing any User modifications on the systems and distributes white listed applications only, it would be perfectly viable to run Linux on every company computer. If something is broken, the User would call IT or write a ticket. No sane IT department lets 55 year old Jane from accounting anywhere near a command prompt.
Customizeability does not make an OS “industrial”. 99% of the Users in an industry setting are not supposed to customize anything on their computer aside from maybe the desktop background.
This is utterly false.
Most companies allow users to customize their machines however they want outside of a few restricted and locked down settings.
Hell I’m looking at a laptop issued to me by one of the world’s largest automotive companies and I can change any setting I want outside of some specific security settings.
So you are saying, that you can install and uninstall any software by yourself?
You can access the company network, and network drives without any sandbox?
You can install or remove browser plugins?
You can create or remove local users with custom access rights and gain administrator rights for your local installation?
You can put any program you like into the autostart and quit any processes you like?
You can install drivers for any periphal hardware you are connecting and you can mount any external drive you want?
What point are you trying to make? That if I can’t customize absolutely everything on it, then being able to customize most things without using the command line isn’t valuable?
The point i am trying to make is that you are not being allowed to do any of these, if the company has any reasonable security in place.
So the settings you can change are things anyone can change on a windows machines just as easily using the GUI. So customizeability by the end user is not a characteristic that makes an OS “industrial”. Linux distros are not “industrial” because they are customizeable by the end user and most companies run windows computers outside the IT and backend, even though a linux system could do the same without any problem for the end user.
Tbf if Linux is already installed and running on the computer you really don’t need to use the CLI at all now. And if Windows isn’t installed on the computer your average user couldn’t figure out either. This is more a matter of Windows usually coming pre-installed and configured.
Guess that’s what happens when you live in an echo chamber, you think end thinking the world thinks the same way you do.
Sure, Mint (and other distros) do exactly that. But the installation part will always be out of reach for most users. That part is scary to them. Ergo we need beginner friendly distros preinstalled on devices to get a higher market share.
This. Despite majority of Linux distributions now having Calamares or similar installer (which your grandma can effortlessly navigate and successfully install Linux, should you be around and tell her she’s doing amazing), the mere fear of going on step to the side and “destroying computer forever” is paralyzing for them.
They are scared of anything that can make any change in the system, they feel a mere mortal can’t understand it, and they don’t bother.
Which is why preinstalled is the only option.
As per usage, the common scenarios already don’t require any terminal. Your family member who needs to just surf the Web, edit documents, watch media and play some games will NEVER face Linux terminal.
How did this comment receive this many votes? Calling Linux industrial is baffling.
That’s because it is a perfectly viable consumer os. At least the distros are, Linux is just the kernel. What makes a distro an industrial os? I wouldn’t use Arch for industrial purposes. So no, I won’t accept that I use an industrial os, because it isn’t.
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I feel like this is a good time to point out that Linux is but the kernel. There are server-focused distros, there are consumer-focused distros. Linux supports them all; it isn’t really industrial in itself.
Linux has purpose built distros for pretty much anything. It’s not that you’re wrong, you prolly just tried and are talking abt something that didn’t fit you. Try Mint or something.
Because it is. What is an “industrial OS” anyway? Also it’s important to remember that “Linux” is just a kernel (the software that acts as a “bridge” between the rest of the OS and the hardware). Android is Linux, Ubuntu is Linux, Arch is Linux, Debian is Linux, Slackware is Linux, etc. And yet those are vastly different OSes. You would maybe run Ubuntu, Debian or RHEL on a server (which maybe you could consider industrial). But you would never use Arch or Android on a server. Android is the most popular mobile OS, would you consider that industrial? And for the desktop, the average user would use something like Ubuntu, Linux Mint or Fedora. But you’d never use the graphical version of those on the server and I don’t think they would be considered industrial OSes.
So anyway, what’s your point exactly?
What is an “industrial OS” anyway?
A non-consumer focused OS. One focused on serving commercial industry.
So anyway, what’s your point exactly?
I’ve never once been able to setup a Linux distro, and walk through my normal steps of customizing settings the way I’d like and installing the basic programs I need to do office work, without at some point running into instructions that tell you to use the command line. I’m a professional programmer and have no issue with that, but I’m also someone capable of understanding where the average human being is at technology wise and recognize that would be a non-starter for them.
A non-consumer focused OS. One focused on serving commercial industry.
Linux was actually developed as a (kernel for a) desktop OS. It doesn’t focus on the server or the desktop, distros do that.
What distros did you try and when? In 2023, you can totally set up Ubuntu or Linux Mint without using the terminal. Obviously for “power-user” settings you might need to use the terminal or edit config files, but just as regular users cannot do those things, they also don’t need that functionality.
I’m an architect and designer. I’ve tried switching to Linux on several occasions. Unfortunately you just can’t really CAD/CAM, 3d model for fabrication, or for architectural documentation in Linux. There’s also a lot of work I do with fabrication robots which further complicates matters. Finally, the creative tools on Linux are limited. It’s hard to find good software substitutes for things like after effects, InDesign, and figma. Rendering is also a pain; having to use blender as the intermediary adds a significant extra step to the process.
Also, anything having to interact with MS is a huge pain in the ass (specifically no onedrive support, which is what a lot of AEC firms have switched over to using in order to collaborate besides BIM360).
While your arguments are valid, the reasoning behind them isn’t Linux’s fault. Entire industries latched on to single pieces of software 30 years ago and have gone out of their way to keep it way. You either give up the convenience and routine of the Microsofts and Adobes of the world and start fresh or you continue to be at their mercy while pointing out the flaws of a system you participate in that creates those flaws.
And, put simply, that is entirely fair.
While I personally deem Windows to be worth not much more than the sum of its software and hardware support, that is certainly an important factor for many. I would encourage many people to at least attempt to use Linux, as Microsoft’s monopoly on non-apple pcs is rather worrying, and they may even prefer Linux completely disregarding that factor, as I did, but you have clearly tried and figured out it doesn’t work for you. Depending on the distro Linux can satisfy developers, average computer users, at this point even many gamers, but creative support is clearly lacking and if you need it then that’s the final word on that.
While I encourage you to take another look in half a decade, or maybe a full one, please remember that people here on Lemmy are rather… preachy about Linux. So you’re gonna get backlash for that decision, no matter how much sense it makes. Please do not let that behavior taint your view of Linux as a whole <3
Or in other words: Every OS has its advantages, I’m happy you found the right one for you at the moment, do give Linux another shot eventually, but for now just ignore the people telling you you’re wrong or that there’s some kind of easy fix for your multitude of issues and don’t let that annoy you :3
I tried to install ArchiCAD via bottles done time ago. At first I thought the DRM inhibits it but they even have native Linux support. And ArchiCAD does have a good MacOS version, too. I don’t get it…
You need more architects using Linux and less using Windows if you want that to change
Yep AEC is a Windows world. I was tasked with building Revit Addins to leverage within the Design Automation API. Had to run it in virtualbox which was a ball ache. Eventually moved to parsec to desktop stream instead.
Shame IFC won’t take off. It’s so limited but at least the files are editable in a text editor. CAD and RVT are a database wrapped inside a binary file which is a holy mess if you load them into a DB viewer.
Need the EU to step in to pull some things away from Autodesk for Linux to have a chance.
In reality, the inertia is too much and AEC professionals are too entrenched in Windows tools since they do the job just fine.
Onedriver exists should you want to scratch that itch.
There’s figma for Linux as well, I use it ( Nobara distro, fedora based)
Can’t we stop turning every meme touching Linux to a field of the same discussion over again about switching to Linux?
would you make an angel cut it wings?
Can we stop turning every instance into a Linux instance?
As long as the memes continue to try and convince people to use Linux, there will be people discussing why they won’t.
…did you hear Steve Jobs died to figma?
(Sorry I had to)
The easiest way imo to “use Linux” is to start by running it as a virtual machine using virtualbox or free VMWare Workstation (free for one VM). That way, you can find what is useful or not for you in your Profession and go from there.
Fair enough, but there’s tools like KiCAD that is used to fabricate the electronic systems of the LHC. And efforts with other tools like FreeCAD and LinuxCNC fill in the gap. And please dont under estimate the contributing power of Blender in the creative arts.
I bet what you need runs on proton. Just gotta figure it out probably.
Similar to interoperability between Apple’s services and Windows. iCloud exists for Explorer, but it is not well written. And there’s no iMessage, which is super annoying.
As far as your issues with Linux, sure. Software doesn’t exist for everything there is on Windows or Mac. For certain purposes though, like development in general or just as a general purpose desktop, I far prefer Linux.
mobile devices??? tell me more. Android is Linux? plz be aware I’m very tech illiterate by lemmy standards
Yes, Android is based on the Linux kernel.
I think it’s a bit disingenuous for them to claim mobile dominance when android isn’t really anything resembling a typical Linux operating system anymore. Just the fact that it’s owned by Google should basically disqualify it immediately.
Yes, it’s technically correct but functionally it’s meaningless
Edit: yes, I understand Android is built on Linux. Please read the other comments before lecturing me about it. The point is that when somebody says “I primarily use Linux“ they are almost never talking about using android. I’ve literally never heard Android included in a conversation about booting and using Linux. Again, yes, I know it is a Linux based system.
I disagree. Linux is a kernel, and Android uses and develops its features to a great extent.
It’s very different to GNU though, and this confusion is why calling it GNU+Linux makes sense.Fair enough. I just feel like when people talk about Linux they are talking about basically the polar opposite ethos of Google and android lol
Even though Google is developing Android it is open source and you can run it without Google. I believe projects like LineageOS and GrapheneOS would continue development with the existing code base if that ever changed. But yeah, personally, I still would love to see a Linux phone that does not rely on Google which is why I appreciate the efforts of the likes of Pine64.
It definitely doesn’t have the vibe of most Linux-based operating systems, but I’d say it’s functionally very similar. Most Linux software will run just fine on Android, including X.org and Wayland apps, since you can just run X/Wayland servers.
A lot of highly commercialized projects start with open source technology and patents and ideas that are just lying around.
I know but that’s not really what I’m driving at.
If someone says “I use linux primarily” almost no one thinks they could mean Android.
Oh thats true. But like… It is though? Like I know I’m.using a website… But it runs in Linux. Lol.
Nobody in this thread seems to be discussing kernels - but rather talk about Linux distros. While GNU userland still dominates most distros, most of the rust replacements seems to be mit or bsd-like licenses. Like the coreutils
The license doesn’t say whether it’s part of the GNU project.
The existence of other Unix-likes (GNU-likes? :D) or program implementations doesn’t play a major role here, as Ubuntu, Fedora, Suse, etc all use GNU userland. The distinction feels like bike-shedding.
Your first sentence actually reenforced my point.There’s no requirement from the kernel that the userland is GPL. It’s by chance - and replaceable. Like with Android - there’s not much left of gnu userland there afaik. If you look at end user devices this makes up the bulk of devices running the Linux kernel.
Looking at today’s landscape of Linux development, replacements for userland is likely to be rust code. The majority of this code is MIT or BSD licensed. The coreutils implementation was an example of this. It’s not GNU licensed.
This comment doesn’t make any sense to me. Did you read my previous answer to you?
It never really resembled a typical Linux OS, but it uses the Linux kernel, so it’s Linux.
Already discussed in another comment!
Sooo I technically own a Linux device?
I guess!
The android development may be led by google, but it’s still FOSS Software. And if Linux ever breaks into the consumer market, this is pretty much what it will look like. Some big manufacturer will pre install it and add their own bloatware
Personally I feel part of what makes a linux distro a linux distro is community, if more android devs regarded it as linux there would be a good chance many others would
Android is Linux based, yes! You can even get a terminal, by installing Termux or a similar app.
After rooting you also get more native shell commands, cause you know, you’re root iirc
Or take it a step further: https://github.com/RandomCoderOrg/ubuntu-on-android (Edit: don’t even need root for this)
Nice! Thanks for this.
Android is running a Linux kernel, yes.
iOS is not, it’s running apples version of BSD. Sort of related to Linux, which is where OPs misunderstanding probably comes from, but definitely not Linux.
The heck is a kernel?
A piece of software that is the core of each operating system which handles tasks like talking to hardware, scheduling tasks, allocating resources etc.
iOS is based on BSD, no?
BaSeD
Can’t decide if linux is a gateway to queerness or the other way around
matrix, hackers, johnny mnemonic, the net it’s because hacking movies of the 90s were unbelievably queer.
(the net is just there because sandra bullock was everything i wanted to be growing up closeted)
I LOVE The Net. Just rewatched it last year. Now I need to re-rewatch it from a queer lens. 👁👁
I was clueless to all the queerness in the media I consumed as a kid, so it’s pretty exciting to find a new source. I am curious what stood out to you in these movies as queer.
it’s really mostly just because she was basically everything i wanted to be as a closeted trans kid and sapphic kid :) also i literally watch while you were sleeping every christmas because i’m also a hopeless romantic :)
but also it’s legitimately a great movie from the lens of a woman being her own self and it’s pretty empowering too :)
I noticed the rather large venn diagram overlap as early as 2004, and it seems to have held true
I came into it quite a bit later, but I’ve noticed a similar thing with programmers, despite the stereotype of “brogrammers” there are some pretty diverse pockets about
95% of site data breaches?
Those are generally caused by the database and how it’s implemented. It’s not really Linux fault if the company didn’t secure their servers against SQL injection and the likes.
I think it was a joke, just saying that there’s all sorts of ways you can put Linux up and down with this kind of data
Yeah. And it’s not like if every device with linux installed is comparable. It’s not because it’s the main OS installed on supercomputers that you should have it on your PC.
I mean, there are other reasons, but this one is wrong.Also, Linux is not an operating system upon itself, but a kernel operating systems can be build upon. I don’t see the point of merging GNU and Android systems into one number.
This meme have sense for servers, but for mobile devices it’s so simplified that it’s wrong. 99% of mobile devices is also wrong, iOS does not use Linux kernel.
That’s like Oh window is bad because it gets the most desktop PC attacks . Yeah sure since big target and a lot of machines.
Same for when most sites run Linux, no wonder it’s the most attacked os
sssh
No command sssh found, did you mean:
Command ssh in package dropbear
Command ssh in package openssh
Command slsh in package slang
Command zssh in package zssh
ssssssssshhh
super saiyan slick short shitty secure shell
itju
It’s been my primary desktop for about 7 years now, at least. Ubuntu + gnome, tweaked and extended a bit. It’s difficult to boot into windows even for gaming at this point.
Linux be like: nah I’d win
That’s wrong unless mobile phones as a whole are 2% of mobile devices
Android. The number seems high, but I assume the worldwide Android usage rate is higher than the US, where Apple holds a fairly sizable portion of the market.
I think of a “mobile device” as a phone, tablet, and smartwatch, but those latter two categories are dwarfed by the market for phones, so I think they can be ignored. Laptops are dominated by Windows and macOS (BSD/Unix descendant, not Linux), so that can also be ignored. A few sites of questionable reputation put the global market share of iOS at around 30%, but let’s suppose it’s only 20%. In order for 99% of all mobile devices to be Linux-based, then only 1% of the total could be an iOS device, and roughly another 4% of the total is every other (presumably) Linux-based phone. That leaves 95% of the “mobile device” market for non-phone devices, which seems unrealistic, even accounting for industrial and commercial devices.
I suppose, the meme incorrectly regards iOS and iPadOS as Linux due to their unix descent and thus close relation to Linux. (Or simply because they do not know that difference)
Linuxians tend to do that.
But when you point out Linux and Mac are based upon UNIX and thus by their logic are UNIX, they flip their shit.
Android is so heavily modified, it isn’t Linux anymore.
Android is just as much linux. Sure it has some additional patches. Saying it isn’t linux would be the same as saying linux with Plasma or Gnome is not linux because it isn’t on a server. The user interface is just different and they block root.
Android at the very least still uses the same Linux kernel, albeit modified. Apple‘s XNU kernel is an entirely different thing, being originally based on a modified BSD kernel, unlike Linux, which was written from scratch.
Isn’t 95% of the servers?
I’d be shocked if windows server + every other version of Unix (HP/UX, AIX, Solaris, etc) isn’t at least 6+% of servers.
I see this stat a lot and it has to be a majority of web servers. I just don’t believe that most servers aren’t running windows. I’ve worked with so many companies large and small as a consultant and the amount of Linux servers in production that aren’t just web servers or load balancers is just miniscule. If you were to search on a job board for a sysadmin job managing Linux servers you have to look for a completely different job title “Linux sysadmin” because nine times out of ten “Sysadmin” means your environment is at least 80% Windows Server.
My experience in the industry is very tangential, but your argument seems sound. Tons of intranet stuff is based on Exchange, and while IIS market share is minuscule, web servers are a pretty small part of “servers” as a whole.
Never see this before. Whats the original?
pokeman
