Blahaj.zone admin here. Let me make this simple and clear. I don’t care what specific word you use, if you are using intellectual disability or neurodivergence as an insult, you’re going to get moderated.
Just… don’t use anything one can’t control as an insult.
Yup. Goes for bodyshaming too.
Genuinely curious if this applies to moron and idiot, since they have basically the same origin story.
Sounds like a yes
Sounds like a silence to me.
lemmy users will hear “i don’t care what word you use, don’t insult based on disability or neurodivergence” and say “sounds like silence to me, too bad the mods won’t answer my questions of if certain words are allowed”
🙄
“I don’t care what word you use”
I swear there is so much snark in this thread people forgot how to read. Yes it applies to moron and idiot. 😂😂
thank you ada 🩷🩷🩷 sorry about this post i didn’t know it was going to get so awful
Tell that to anyone in the aviation industry and you’ll get a chuckle and a couple of "bless your heart"s.
I put my sourdough batard into the fridge to retard. Retarded dough tastes better!
It’s quite obvious that it’s very different to use it as a verb and as a noun to refer to someone.
But yet, people bitch about it even when you’re not calling someone retarded. It’s almost as if they are too intellectually disabled to understand the difference.
entirely different word and we both know it
Try telling that to a text filter or a moderator on a power trip. They won’t give a rat’s ass about “to retard” meaning “to reduce or hold back.” Even the linked article fails to make the semantic distinction when it calls for the elimination of the word.
The fact that this lame strawman argument has received so many upvotes is baffling. Who gives a fuck what the random moderator that you invented does?
i’m SAYING like 😭 😭
Yup. I was perma banned from /r/politics over on Reddit years ago for using this word in a way that had nothing to do with people.
It was used in a literal manner, with the definition of how I used it meaning “to delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.”
I tried to appeal, and I was labeled “ableist”. It was the dumbest shit I’ve ever experienced on Reddit prior to the piggy ruining the platform.
Je suis en retard dans la discussion, mais tu as raison, les ordinateurs ne tiennent pas compte du contexte.
dot ml friends see this lol
I’m late to the discussion, but you’re right, computers don’t take context into account.
I’m removed to the discussion, but you’re right, computers don’t take context into account.
ur
█▀█ █▀▀ █▀▄▀█ █▀█ █░█ █▀▀ █▀▄ █▀▄ ██▄ █░▀░█ █▄█ ▀▄▀ ██▄ █▄▀
it’s giving 6th grade locker room 😂😂😂
“dude look i found a way to say it and dude it’s allowed because it’s about airplanes”
And a bitch is a female dog, I know. There’s a factor of intention, a.k.a mens rea, a.k.a guilty mind that separates right from wrong based on why a person does something. It’s this sort of inconvenient nuance that dealing with absolutes doesn’t allow.
Would you use the term “bitch” when talking about dogs? Or just say female dog to avoid being misunderstood? It used to be used that way, but now you’re going to sound like an asshole if you use it.
Once people start using a technical term as a slur, it gets tainted by that additional meaning. You can’t forcefully separate the technical term from the slur. If you don’t want people to think you’re throwing around slurs, you need to find a new word to use.
Don’t blame the people hurt by the slurs, blame the assholes who misused the word so often that they fucked up its meaning.
I don’t think the SPECIAL OLYMPICS needs to make the semantic distinction between ableism and aviation (I WONDER WHICH ONE THEY WOULD TALK ABOUT)
and there’s a matter of intention to me blocking you, too. literally no one disagrees with you, not even me. i am not calling for an “absolute” anything
your sophomorisms are literally just being posted to give you an excuse to type le edgy words. and worst crime of all you’re not doing it even in a funny or thoughtful way, you are just being mean about it. take care and i hope to me is the most unkind you will be to anyone all day.
How am I supposed to just stop using this word?? How else is the plane supposed to tell me to put thrust at idle during landing? This is ridiculous.
Airbus is Ableist!
Tell airbus to use the proper term “intellectually disabled” instead
Just don’t use it to refer to people and you’re golden. There are many slurs that are also legitimate scientific terms, like how fag(g)ot is a bundle of sticks, or how in physics you have the Advanced and the Retarded Green’s functions.
fag(g)ot is a bundle of sticks
Fagot is also what a bassoon is called in Danish, Dutch, Spanish, German, Romanian, Bulgarian, Latvian, Slovak and Czech, for some reason lol.
Not sure about the pronunciation, though, even though the first of those is my native language 😄
Its fa-'got, fyi. Similar to the slur, but the second syllable is stressed, like the word for good. That is in your native language to be clear, I don’t know about the others.
Same in German
this is the way
To be fair to Airbus,
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They probably chose the language for that call-out way before 2009. Airplanes can live for thirty years, and type designs can keep going several decades longer
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The designers were also likely to be French, but they selected English call-outs. This seems to me like a case where they picked a word that’s technically in the OED l, but is actually much more common in French.
I mean, if it’s a valid word for what they want to say, then I don’t really see a problem. It’s pronounced the same, but it’s a completely different word.
Same with a pork meatball or cigarette in the UK.
What’s the meatball called? Or is it the same as a cig?
What’s the meatball called?
Ron DeSantis
The longer version of what the cigarette’s called
Rhymes with maggot?
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no hate to you but i do hate that this is one of the default responses the internet has chosen when discussing this language (twice now in this thread)
i guess it’s like a growing pains thing, but it strikes me as very middle schooler, kind of like bringing up that one word that means unwilling to share with others.
one is a noun/adjective, the other is a verb. entirely different words that simply have the same Latin root. one is used in a professional context in an industry nearly none of us are familiar with, the other i come across as a derogatory on this site pretty much hourly. please let’s grow up a bit about this.
(again no hate to you specifically commenter, it was a funny joke and i just want to call out the broader trend)
It probably gets annoying as a bystander, but I don’t have a lot of opportunities to bring aviation into the rest of my life. Especially in a way that’s mildly funny.
honestly happy for you lol i think both of our emotional investments are valid
You’re just upset there’s a legitimate use for a word you’ve chosen some weird crusade over
You know what else I’m upset about? There’s this insidious figure who has caused unimaginable grief and pain, hiding behind a facade of normalcy. He’s responsible for countless horrors, using his cunning and deceit to further his dark ambitions. His actions have shattered lives and spread fear like wildfire. Yeah, I’m talking about William Afton. If there’s one person who truly deserves all the anger and outrage, it’s definitely him.
It’s been so long, since last I’ve seen my son, lost to this monster, to the man behind the slaughter
This is rich coming from the crowd who throws a tantrum every time someone requests they stop saying a word
This is a real convo I had with middle schoolers when I did a stint as a teacher.
“But teacher why I can’t I say SHITAKE? it’s a mushroom. And James is acting like a little SHITAKE head.”
literally multiple instances of this happening under this post
I asked a question about this after seeing it quite a bit here!
South Park did a whole episode about this with “fag” nobody is using the word to insult actual homosexuals (except hateful bigots I suppose) just like nobody us using the word “retard” to slur the disabled. (again apart from the bigoted assholes) if I say something that offends someone, then they can tell me and I’ll apologize. But I don’t need someone policing my language just in case someone might be upset by a word.
Not only is the word fag used by a lot of people, because there are a lot of hateful bigots out there, but even when you don’t mean the nasty implications, it still reminds gay people around you how much the world hates them and leads hateful bigots who overhear you to believe that their views are more widely held and acceptable to share in public. Shocking though it may seem, South Park is not a moral authority on these matters.
Aside from that, if you know a word is commonly used a slur against a disprivileged group, someone advises you to stop using it, and your response is that you’d rather say it, hurt someone and apologise if they complain about it than just stop using that word, what does that say about your priorities?
i guess you just have to ask yourself if you are cool with aligning your language with that of bigoted assholes - and risk hurting and/or being judged for it. i will judge you and probably assume you are on the side of the bigoted assholes simply because on a game of odds it’s more likely.
it takes very little effort to be kind and when minorities tell you a very minute step you can take to be kind i generally don’t want to try to fight back as though i’m the one being insulted.
Great episode.
I think they 👇
need an example of someone being hurt to drive their point home.
@spujb@lemmy.cafe do you have a ready example?
Aight this isn’t bad:
So I think we can be preemptively told not to say the word on social media. (RE: “if I…offend someone…I’ll apologize”) When you’re talking to your best friend in your car though it’s probably hard to demand you police yourself (in the example you never use the word in public, and neither you nor your friend ever will no matter how much you say it privately). So it shouldn’t be a thought crime kinda but probably appropriate to avoid it in public or unfamiliar company.
Curious what you think of that take spujb - “tree falls in the forest …”
when an entire disabled community gets together and tells abled people that the word carries hurt, that should be more than enough evidence. if that’s not enough for a person, my only suggestion is to look inward and ask why they are so quick to doubt the personal statements of lived experiences of thousands of disabled folks.
regarding the “tree falls in the forest” thing—i literally don’t care. arguing it just gives bad vibes; some arguments you lose the moment you try to debate bro them. like i remember this one streamer who was like “but what if i said the n word in the vaccum of space where no light or sound could escape” and it’s just like bro the fact that you touch so little grass to the point you are arguing about this tells us all we need to know about you.
This is the argument I see to defend use of the word and I’ve never understood it. Where I am (west coast-ish of the US), the word is used very specifically to mean autistic. If you ask someone not to say retard, they say autistic instead. If you ask them not to say autistic, they say special education. If not that, slow. If not that, someone who takes the short bus. Unambiguously the people here use the r slur as a slur against autistic people. They use it as an insult towards allistic people to degrade them as lesser. Same as calling a straight person the f slur. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the country, but the r slur is absolutely used as a slur against autistic people where I am.
the constant reality is that hateful losers just want to be verbally disdainful and othering to the disabled, and they will do whatever they can to keep doing it even if it means changing their language
the model of the “euphemism treadmill,” while accurate, is just another tool spiteful people use to justify saying spiteful derogatives
Without a doubt, there are hateful, spiteful losers who not only use but take pleasure in using language with the specific intent of causing maximum harm.
In spite of this fact, there I think it’s worthwhile to call out exceptions exist - since a plan of attack has the best chance of success when the full context, the entire enemy, is known. The last person I heard use the word IRL is:
- kind and generous
- thoughtful, otherwise respectful, well mannered
- (a leftist pacifist vegan)
- friends with a wide, diverse cross section of humanity
But I know they grew up around the word and haven’t seen someone it’s hurt, so they used it like they’d use any other word - without intent to harm, just ignorantly.
I’d take tips on how best to counsel them if it comes up again. I think exploring their potential blindspot (no/few disabled friends?) would be part of my strategy. Thankfully they are not just some hateful piece of shit because it wouldn’t be worth my time talking at a wall if they were. They will at least be open to entertaining an argument about the potential impact of their words even in able-bodied/minded company. Thankful that’s the kind of person they are! And when we accurately assess people it gives us our best shot at righting our collective vocabulary.
yea the hateful and spiteful are the ones that push the bill on things.
for your friend, i have had this exact experience. i just went “hey friend, that word has some history that makes it hurtful to some people, just a heads up since the way you used it sounded like you maybe weren’t aware”
and it went over pretty well :) kind people rock
Good to hear :)
That reminds me I think it was a slip, cuz I mentioned it years ago and didn’t hear it for over a year - I’m fine to remind again if I need to! Thanks :)
I’m sorry this happens where you live, that’s super messed up. Autism is particularly frustrating to see denigrated because it all too often comes down to social ineptitude (so far as the people who ostracize others go). Everyone’s brains work differently - this idea that anyone who breaks the mold should be cut down is incredibly frustrating and sad.
What does slur mean?
Is this just a general “don’t use slurs” or is this a reference to some current event I missed?
don’t use slurs
I don’t think I’ve used the word once since high school. Had it been generally unacceptable back then, I wouldn’t have done so. I graduated high school in 2004, and it was at least an acceptable insult back then (though not to call a disabled person), I think. I was a jackass in high school, though, so I could be wrong.
Either way, it offends people now, so we shouldn’t say it. It’s that simple. Deliberately offending people just makes you an asshole.
I think saying it was acceptable is a stretch. I agree it was certainly more commonplace and more acceptable than now, but it was still criticized a good bit.
You’re absolutely right. I meant it was “acceptable” – I don’t recall hearing people judged for saying it, but that was among an immature, high school crowd. It was definitely considered offensive to use as a label, rather than an insult (which was on the same level as f*g; not acceptable, but commonplace).
Here’s an image many of you will like.
Lemmy users?
Take a look at Twitter.
I’ve definitely seen it a lot on here. Maybe it’s only a few people, but it’s rare for me in all my other online spaces. Granted, I don’t use Twitter.
On Xitter, people also regularly use the N-word, because reasons.
I wish 2009 would call me back 😞
hi back, i’m ‘09 how ya doin buddy
EPIC
Air horn sound
I think it’s fine in its original contexts (i.e. “retardant”, or to “retard” something), but could maybe be avoided in 80% of cases.
It is inexcusable to apply it to people though.
I used it yesterday and feel kinda bad. Having said that, the guy I said it to was in an online lobby and I’d said one word on mic and he immediately asked if I was a baddie and told me to rate myself out of 10 for him.
I said some not okay things…
those are entirely different words; different parts of speech, etc :) fully agree but it’s helpful to think of it that way instead
Ootl. Did someone use the word that rhymes with lard?
You can say fart on here
hello rhyme police? yeah this one right here
Any time I hear about this, I can’t help but think of this comedy bit by Louis CK - https://youtube.com/watch?v=DXtHF0WRX64
Yes, I realize Louis CK is a POS and shouldn’t be seen as a moral authority on any subject.
“Retarded” can’t be a slur because it can be used to describe slowed/inhibited things that aren’t people. “Retard” is a slur derived from the adjective “Retarded”. Unlike the F-slur, N-word, and all the other colorful terms hateful people use to show people that they aren’t welcome on the basis of their identity, retarded has OTHER MEANINGS, and it is so much more apt a word than “Dumb” or “Slow” in so many contexts that it’s frankly (choose your adjective here) that we should have to walk on eggshells around it.
Expressing disrespect for a person for things outside their control is cowardly and close-minded. We should censor people who try to co-opt the group they are speaking in to express their prejudice. But extending the censorship of a slur to its root word, even for innocuous contexts, is an overreach of the social policing of our language. It sets a bad example, since ANY WORD can be made to be an insult to someone if used that way, and we set a bad cultural precedent by doing this for “retarded”
I understand that there’s no council that decides what is or isn’t acceptable to say, but I really wish people would think about this with a little more nuance than just “R-word detected, speaker shall be shunned” without considering the context. The way I see it, refusal to consider context is a redirection of the same kind of prejudiced thinking that makes slurs bad. But it’s being applied to a person’s speech rather than their identity, so it’s not as bad a thing to do.
They are entirely different words. No one is calling for an outright ban on those letters; that’s a sentiment you made up.
Don’t use it as a slur. If you are using the word in another, legitimate context where it’s not a slur, I don’t give a fuck. But stop arguing that those two uses are somehow indistinguishable because that’s just not true.
Edit:
Unlike the F-slur, N-word, and all the other colorful terms…
This is false. Examples: “cracker,” the b-word, the f-slur (in UK contexts), “queer,” “gay.”
All of these have other legitimate meanings. So, please reconsider your defense of this specific term, because you’re not even arguing it based on facts.
buh-buh-buh but what about when I refer to mechanical engineering! what about when I need to adjust my cam timing! oh no!
I dunno, I would broadly agree and I think that it’s probably not a good thing to be calling people, but I do have two complaints I would like to file with the official board that governs this sort of thing. Neither of them relate to the word’s banned usage, however. Of course, it’s still gonna be a little weird.
One is that I like -tard as a suffix, I think it has a kind of satisfying mouthfeel in pronunciation, I think potentially we need some more words that use it, and I don’t think that as a kind of, like, workaround, or way to say the slur more. I kind of wish the suffix was dissociated from the slur, so this was more possible. The only other word I can think of that does this is mustard, which apparently arrived at a similar pronunciation through a different etymological route. I dunno, I find it to be a kind of like, inherently hilarious word, or satisfying word to say. Unusual, maybe, maybe like an unusual morpheme pairing. Maybe I have some level of just like unprocessed shitheadery though, that’s very possible. I also kind of wish there was a way that actually worked to de-escalate the weight of a slur, to rob it of it’s weight. Obviously, taking it back doesn’t do much, because it’s just going to be subject to the same in-ground out-ground dynamic, a la the n-word, right. It’s okay if gay people call each other or themselves the f-slur, it’s not okay if some straight guy walks in and does it. More positive associations might work but then, you know, doubtful that would work in the first place, and also you’d probably not see a lot of people wanting to take the L and push it on that one because everyone would hate them for it, both the people insulted and those who would use it as a insult.
Also, I don’t like this kind of mentality more broadly of “oh you gotta be more creative when you insult people.”. Some people are so boring and uninterestingly fucked, that they aren’t worth the creativity you expend upon insulting them. I think it just kind of shadows the problem here. No, you don’t want to say the word because it denigrates an entire group of people when you use it in an insulting manner. There’s not really anything there about creativity, or lack thereof, that makes it a moral problem. Sometimes you do need a low-rent insult, it should just be one that isn’t a slur. Call someone a shitheel, or something, it’s easier than this, there are plenty to choose from.
Okay, thirdly, I think there’s also a broader, and interesting question here, of, how an insult being based on like, unchangeable characteristics makes it more mean or more of a slur, right. But then that sort of, leaves out things we might consider as being changeable, like, say, body weight, which I would also say is a dick move, to insult someone on the basis of their weight, or to constantly bring it up, or anything like that. On the other hand, insulting someone on the basis of their eye color is maybe like, very antiquated, still potentially mean, and potentially very mean in like, maybe india? But I dunno so much if it would be considered a slur, really, as much as just kind of a very weird thing to bring up. Insulting someone on the curliness of their hair, maybe, but then that could be seen as a proxy for other things, just like most traits. It’s hard to do this with something too obvious because most of them have been historically associated with like, eugenics and shit like that. Maybe if you were to insult someone based on how big their feet are or something, that might be a more socially acceptable or lighthearted insult, even if it’s still mean.
We also have, like, technically all characteristics are unchangeable, if we live in a deterministic universe, right? Insulting someone’s intelligence, even if they don’t have autism or down syndrome or what have you, is still insulting a deterministic aspect of their character, which was sort of unavoidable for them to stumble into. If you insult someone for even, their choice of boots, right, you are just insulting a characteristic about them which was ultimately inevitable, the result of many dominoes falling into place. I think perhaps when we attempt to understand the purpose of insulting someone, we give it this guise of free will and agency which I think ultimately makes it more mean than it would otherwise be. It robs it of its whimsy.
We view insults as some sort of like, vehicle for tough love, vehicle for change, perhaps, or we view it as maybe righteous, because you’re insulting someone on something they can change and by implication I think, should change. I think we have to be honest, though. Insults are not for the people who are being insulted. They are for the people saying them, they have always been. If that’s the case, it doesn’t even need to be really related to the person you’re insulting at all, or even necessarily directed at them. It doesn’t need to be such a mean thing, if it’s just for you. And if it is just for you, then I think it’s more valuable to do that assessment and figure out why you’re actually doing it, instead of just like, giving into mindless frustration and calling someone a mean name, like a child.
I appreciate the perspective here. You’re thinking about this from a different angle than basically anyone else here, I feel.
