Occidental Petroleum is investing in billion-dollar projects to suck carbon dioxide out of the sky. The effort is raising hopes — and eyebrows
By Daniel Estrin, Camila Domonoske
3-Minute Listen / Transcript available
Quote:
So Occidental Petroleum, a big American oil company, they are really good at a kind of oil production that involves injecting CO2 underground to squeeze more oil out of old wells. So when they heard about this technology to pull carbon out of the sky, they thought, wait; this could work for us. They plan to put some carbon underground just to store it.
This is worse than a zero sum game. Every litre of oil produces multiple litres of CO2 gas.
Sorry, but not that uplifting at all.
Don’t forget this gem
But they also plan to use some of that carbon to make more oil
This shit is just an excuse for more oil, they ain’t even tryna hide it
Technically, it’s uplifting if you are a deposit of oil.
Doesn’t that mean that the oil produced here emits less net CO2? Since CO2 was used to extract it, taking it out of the atmosphere, that mean that the entire process of extraction and consumption emits less net CO2 than more traditional methods.
Hardly carbon neutral, but an improvement.
CO2 is a gas. It’s not going to stay underground.
Gasses can definitely be trapped underground. That’s where we mine methane, ethane,and propane.
You don’t think it would just come back out the same hole they pulled the oil out of when they’re done? Or that the cavern they just created would collapse, releasing the gas at some point?
No, they can cap those off pretty well. Honestly, I think we need a way to start capturing CO2 and that’s a solid solution for holding a large amount of CO2.
Once our CO2 emissions finally come under control and we are not pumping out an insane amount, we will need to start finding ways to capture massive amounts of CO2 and holding them, or chemically changing the CO2 into liquids or solids.
This is greenwashing at its crudest.
Like open/closed source, if they don’t provide the source and data very likely they are lying to you.
damn… can’t even trust NPR anymore.
Good news everyone! It’s time to present my newest invention: a solar powered CO2 scrubber! To activate it, just throw a few of these small seeds on the ground and wait a few years.
What do you do after the lifespan of the tree? Or rather after the growth phase?
Tree drops seeds on its own.
Trees burn in wildfires, decompose and there isn’t infinite space for it. You need to take carbon out of the game to make a difference. Trees aren’t exactly perfect for that.
Old growth forests naturally sequester carbon despite bushfires. New growth takes a long time to get there without additional steps but the later you start the longer it’s going to take.
Nope thats not how it works its a circle of Carbon unless we humans add it by burning literal carbon we have from the ground (coal) we need to put it back.
Nope thats not how it works its a circle of Carbon unless we humans add it by burning literal carbon we have from the ground (coal) we need to put it back.
What is coal? It’s literally dead plant matter that didn’t decay in anaerobic environments and that’s what swamps are.
While I agree that artificial carbon capture should be researched, as others already said: it has little practical use until all electricity production comes from renewable sources.
There are better and more efficient ideas than Industrial Plants needing energy, for example a system using some sort of Alge, wich grows fast, and is easy to store forever when dry.
Of course there’s enough space to capture CO2 from decomposed trees. It’s called soil.
Are you afraid of a Himalaya of soil or what?
Removed by mod
Let the tree become part of earth.
No, it’s not. But now that everyone is realizing carbon credits are bullshit, they need some other excuse to prevent them from doing what needs done.
I can’t believe we’re still burning fucking coal. It’s incredible.
Unless your grid is running on 100% renewables and has excess capacity carbon capture causes net positive emissions.
This is just another attempt at greenwashing. They’re presenting carbon capture as a way to keep burning fossil fuels. Until our energy generation is fully decarbonised, there’s no point even thinking about carbon capture.
I mean, someone needs to be thinking about it and perhaps even building infrastructure so it can be used once the grid is clean but it’s not something that should be in use
Nope, still bullshit technology.
In what sense?
NPR is a reputable news source, so I’m curious…
Edit: I just read the article. Because it would justify continuing using oil as an energy source for longer. And one specific oil company could profit from both extracting carbon from the ground, and putting it back in.
I’ve always held high hopes (albeit uninformed hopes) for carbon capture… Thanks for the links, looking forward to reading them.
If you’re going to capture any of it, you should build your capture factory right next to the source such as a blast furnace. In normal air the concentration is so low that you end up playing that game in hard mode.
How about make the polluting company purchase this and plop it on top of their emissions tube?
The rules will only say “no carbon emission”, and however a company wants to make that happen is up to them.
This is the way I would want to see it happen. If pollution tax is high enough, it will incentivize companies to act more reasonably. Hopefully coal power plants will shut down permanently while blast furnaces will be modified to meet the new requirements. Processing all of that CO2 won’t be cheap, but steel production has to continue so the company doesn’t really have that many options. The government could also support the transition so that production won’t disappear into other countries.
They make the disease to sell you the cure that makes the disease.
It’s just a ploy to make more money for big oiland gas. Then they don’t have to invest in alternative technologies as that’s expensive. All they have to do is invest in a tech that allows them to continue polluting as before and claim that they actually aren’t polluting.
And people fall for it.
And likely get government funding and tax credits to do it. Again.
i thought i read somewhere its still more efficient to just plant trees or some biomass.
I think algae is more efficient than trees. Not sure tho.
Thing is, the tree is mostly carbon at the end of it’s lifespan. So then what? You merely delayed the problem at that point.
Even if you don’t decompose the material or burn it, you will have the carbon released back eventually.
Strongly recommend to watch a couple of videos by Thunderf00t on the matter. Easy to find on YouTube.
He doesn’t say its impossible, just more expensive than not extracting the oil.
He says it makes no sense to do it, because not only are you basically using twice the energy to get it back down, often using energy made from fossil fuels to begin with, you then also have to tackle storage and that’s nearly impossible at the scale we need to take it out of the atmosphere. Any use case, such as green houses and whatnot don’t help, because they put the CO2 straight back into the atmosphere with a bit of a delay, same with trees.
Which makes it a futile exercise. It’s basically gold plated HDMI cables. Sure it works, but it makes no sense whatsoever, because it doesn’t do what it claims to do.
While it appears he actually has credentials related to this topic I would be way of promoting him in particular. Giving more light to someone who was so deeply entrenched in the gamergate harassment campaigns is not a good thing. I took a quick look around and while it seems like he’s stepped away from that kind of commentary I haven’t seen any acknowledgement of what he did.
What does “gamergate harassment” mean? He’s got an opinion channel and so, regardless of his credentials, one should not take his word (or anyone’s) as gospel. Opinion channels are exactly what they are for, opinions. He does do a good job though at basing his opinions on science facts and shares sources for the evidence he presents on his videos. Him and Evvblog channel are high up there with those pointing out the flase science claims and tech scammers of today, imo.
By “gamergate harassment” I mean the campaign of criticism and harassment that was primarily focused on several prominent women in the gaming/media industry from about 2014-2015. Thunderf00t was particularly focused on Anita Sarkeesian, making dozens of videos about her and bringing her up frequently in unrelated videos over the course of multiple years. He helped create a climate where people felt the need to threaten and doxx others because they were feminists and “SJWs”.
I certainly agree with your view of opinion channels, take everything with a grain of salt unless it has a source. Even then, make sure the source is legitimate and not manipulated before assuming it is correct. I do not mean to say he is wrong about everything, just to apply some extra skepticism to his opinions and ideas. Particularly when it comes to stuff outside the scientific sphere.
hbomberguy made a good video about some of the stuff he closer to when it was happening. It is primarially focused on Thunderf00t’s reactions to the Ghostbusters trailer, but it does go a bit into the gamergate stuff. It gives a good idea as to what kind of videos he made on gamergate. It’s largely opinions though, so be sure to approach it critically as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpgBkpb7xlUSure thing and thanks for the follow up comment! =)
Fuck the naysayers: Any realistic long-term solution to this needs to include removing CO₂ that’s already in the atmosphere. The best time to start developing this tech would have been 50 years ago. If we don’t do this now, someone else will be saying the same thing 50 years from now.
Climate change doesn’t have a single-target solution. This tech may not be very impressive yet but it’s important we figure it out eventually.
I agree but this is not the way to do it.
Oil companies pumping it underground is just a way for them to justify business as usual.
Removing co2 from the atmosphere requires energy input, If that energy comes from a co2 producing source it will never work.
Developing nuke/wind/solar co2 extraction is possible but this is astroturfing of the highest order.
I think it’s more nuanced than that.
Some people are saying it’s bad because they’re using it to “produce more oil” - and that I don’t buy. Sure, they’re directly pumping oil with the CO₂ they inject - but this is oil they’d extract either way, with or without direct air capture. In a strict comparison between the two situations, doing it with direct air capture is less bad than doing it without.
The actual harm that could come from it is mentioned in the article - that they want to use this to justify pumping for longer than they would otherwise. It was actually a bit shocking to see how brazen and open the oil company representative was about that. If they succeed in using this to justify continued pumping, then that’s definitely bad. I don’t think the politics will work out in their favor though, especially not 10 or 20 years from now.
But in the long-term I still see this as an absolute win. Above all else, what this technology needs to do is exist and be effective. For that it needs to be invested in heavily, and built and tested and run even when it’s ineffective and unprofitable. We aren’t anywhere near the stage where we have the technological capability to actually do direct air capture on a scale that matters globally. Helping us get to that point, to me, makes this move still a net positive. A pragmatic good.
Yeah, it needs to be developed and we need to invest in running it off renewables, but our immediate priority needs to be stopping emissions
While I don’t disagree, I think it’s important to note that “our immediate priority needs to be stopping emissions” doesn’t mean “we shouldn’t be investing in this yet”. Technologies take time to develop and reach maturity - sometimes decades. If we wait on developing the tech until removing CO₂ that’s already out there out-prioritizes reducing ongoing emissions, then we’ll be multiple decades behind where we should be when it matters most.
I think this is necessary, but we need to stop trying to make it profitable or using it as an excuse to pollute more. This needs to be paid for through taxes. Any other source of money that is enough to actually get the job done will result in the carbon going right back into the air. Using it for extra oil extraction is doubly bullshit.
I both agree and disagree with this. If it can be made profitable, then all the better - because then economics and policy can combine to bring it about faster than either would alone. But if it can’t be made profitable then I agree absolutely that it should be done anyways with tax revenue.
Long-term it’s definitely not good to use it as an excuse to pollute more - these won’t do an ounce of good if they only exist to offset emissions we still produce. In the short term though, allowing carbon capture to act as an offset for emissions could still be a net long-term positive, in that it would shift the economics more in its favor - allowing faster development and a wider buildout. This assumes that the industries that use it in this fashion do eventually decarbonize anyways - which you could perhaps guarantee by having carbon capture stop counting as offsets at some designated future date.
I think the pragmatic solution is to introduce yearly shrinking carbon caps, and allow them to be offset with carbon capture for a limited time - say, 10 or 15 years after the “net zero carbon” goal date. After that it’s all about building up that net negative number.
Any realistic long-term solution to this needs to include removing CO₂ that’s already in the atmosphere.
Let me introduce you to:
PLANTS
A great example of something that needs to be done in addition to direct carbon capture and all the other things that need to be done.
done in addition to direct carbon capture
Plants are direct carbon capture.
Uh huh. They also decay and release their carbon back into the atmosphere.
Uh huh. They also decay and release their carbon back into the atmosphere.
Not if the dead wood gets into anaerobic environment such as sinking to the bottom of swamps. And I don’t know if you’ve heard of it but wood is also a great building material. So you can literally take the wood, build something and afterwards just not incarcerate it but instead store old wood in artificial anaerobic environments.
I’m not going to sit here pretending “We can sequester enough carbon from the atmosphere to make a difference globally by building with wood and sinking trees into swamps” is a good faith argument.
Keep shilling for fossil Big Oil then.
To quote another commentator: “Unless your grid is running on 100% renewables and has excess capacity carbon capture causes net positive emissions.”
Stopping deforestation and creating new forests is absolutely a way to sequester carbon.
Considering that trees can live for hundreds of years, it would be beneficial short term, even if at one point a tree dies and release carbon.
And when a tree dies, other new trees can take its place and sequester the carbon the dead tree releases.
