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Certain crops can benefit think from some shade throughout the day:
The study aggregates the effect of agrivoltaics on crop yields at different sites. Tomatoes saw up to double yield with agrivoltaics, while wheat, cucumbers, potatoes and lettuce showed significant negative impacts and corn and grapes showed minimal impact.
I assume that maximal crop output would happen if you just grow things in their optimal climate, but then you rely more heavily on transportation.
Agrivoltaics are so cool!
If you put solar panels above your crops, that makes them significantly harder to harvest
Depends on the crop lots of crops are still harvested by hand. Also lots of crops are destroyed by hail, heavy rains or high winds all of which are somewhat protected by solar panels above.
Indoor farming is on the rise, as you can have the optimal climate anywhere. It’s more spatially efficient with vertical planting, but it has a far higher energy cost for air conditioning and potentially lighting. At least the farm workers are cooler too 🤷♀️
AFAIK lighting is the biggest energy eater for indoor farming.
It depends. Natural lighting makes more sense closer to the equator, while ac costs are probably higher than farther north. Regardless of what the energy is spent on, it has a huge footprint.
Keeps cars cool, can be used to charge EVs. Yeah, sounds good. Make the parking lot only partly covered and those spaces EV only to encourage the transition.
I’m not sure photovoltaics would generate enough juice to recharge a vehicle during 30-60 minute shopping trip. Certainly not on the current iteration of electric vehicle charging capacity.
This is a good use of space and a potentially beneficial way to generate power for the storefront (AC and refrigeration during peak hours are real electricity hogs and would tie out with available sunlight), but idk how effective it would be at recharging vehicles. Not unless the space also has large reserve batteries that can discharge rapidly, and the solar cells were exceptionally efficient at generating wattage.
This is, incidentally, why wind plants get you more bang for your buck than solar plants. The supermassive turbines out along the Corpus Christi coastline can generate north of 3 MW/h. Meanwhile, you’d need 75,000 sqft of 200-watt 5’ panels to generate an equivalent. Electric car batteries hold somewhere between 40-100 kWh of power. So getting the math to work is a bit tricky.
Or it could just be a nice fringe benefit. It doesn’t have to fully charge your car, just a little trickle charge, enough to cover the trip there perhaps. I feel like it’s be enough output to at least do that much, combined with being a shaded spot.
Throwing up some canvas shades is a hell of a lot cheaper than adding big integrated solar panels overhead.
I’ve got an electric plug-in hybrid. Even with a relatively small batter (50 mile range) and an eight hour overnight charge time, I can’t bring it up to full. An hour of trickle charging is going to get you a few miles of driving, tops. Idk if the infrastructure investment for all the little charging terminals is going to be worth the return, relative to - say - powering the business itself.
One way to think of it is that if photovoltaics are cheap and efficient enough to be used in general all over the grid and be worth the investment, then if you’re building a structure with the sole purpose of blocking the sun it may be a good candidate!
Plus since the cost involves a large investment of capital over a long period of time, revenue from the energy generated might make it profitable at the end of her day.
Right, point would be that the energy only funnels into a car when the space is occupied, else it goes into powering the building. Is it fantastical and cost prohibitive right now, sure, but it’s an idea that could be implemented when it’s less so. These technologies get significantly cheaper over time.
Depends. Are there lots of tall buildings around the parking lot? Solar panels are made of a lot of rare metals and so we have to be very selective about where we install them to maximize energy output. For this region large open spaces near the equator work well. Not that they can’t work elsewhere, or couldn’t work over a parking lot, but there’s a lot of variables that have to be considered on each individual level.
Solar panels are made of a lot of rare metals
Rare Earth Metals aren’t actually that rare, although they do tend to be concentrated in countries outside our traditional western sphere of influence. We’re seeing a lot of political wrangling in South America and Central Africa, precisely because countries like Bolivia and the Democratic Republic of Congo have an outsized stock of these minerals. In fact, a big part of the conflict in Rwanda along their border with the Congo stems from illegal mining and black market export of minerals, and the subsequent criminal cartelization that’s sprung up around this traffic.
there’s a lot of variables that have to be considered on each individual level
If you’re talking about a globally coordinated geo-engineering project to maximize solar electricity production, then yes - building a big band of solar plants inside the Tropics zone would yield the biggest band for buck. But then moving that electricity out again becomes a challenge, particularly if you’re trying to get it to mega-cities like NYC or Tokyo or London or Beijing.
If you’re just trying to generate local green power in Ohio, without running massive HVDC lines all the way down to the Yucatan Peninsula, then covering the Browns Stadium or the JACK Cleveland Casino in solar panels is as good a use of solar infrastructure as anything.
Yeah like it’s not always a bad thing to commit resources with less than perfect efficiency. Having renewable energy is better than having none every time.
It’s not so much that they’re rare as there is a known limited supply of them and the means of harvesting them currently creates a lot of pollution. Fossil fuels are obviously worse in this regard. And even nuclear has a limited supply in terms of naturally available fuel sources.
Renewable energy should be operated in the manner that best protects the environment, and we should be trying to waste as little possible in operating it. For those reasons I think efficiency and sunlight hours are important considerations. The fossil fuel industry is extremely wasteful and destructive. The renewable industry should be the opposite of that.
It’s not so much that they’re rare as there is a known limited supply of them and the means of harvesting them currently creates a lot of pollution.
And this is where we get into the real economic problem of any industrial scale energy project. FFS, its not like labor abuses and property mismanagement were foreign to the coal or O&G industries. But when people talk about a Green New Deal, a bit part of the project is about building social infrastructure alongside energy infrastructure, such that you’re not ending up with a bunch of strip mines and company towns doing what Standard Oil/Exxon and Peabody Energy were doing 50 years ago.
The fact that these rare earth metals are in countries with large native populations that westerners are dismissive of / openly hostile to doesn’t help things either. How many American petrochemical CEOs would love to revisit King Leopold II’s run through the Congo, if it meant profits on par with what Saudi ARAMCO generate?
Renewable energy should be operated in the manner that best protects the environment, and we should be trying to waste as little possible in operating it.
That would require a degree of political economy afforded to the folks living in and around the areas of resource extraction and labor exploitation. And that’s where I think we run into real problems.
Even as we speak, the state of Georgia is gearing up for some serious labor conflicts around their EV battery plants. Labor groups are attempting to unionize the battery giga-factories being built there, while Atlanta’s Cop City is being constructed to crack down on it. And that’s in the relatively peaceful and post-industrial Atlantic Seaboard. Bolivia’s on its second failed coup attempt in less than four years.
I could very easily see us doing an Iraq-style intervention into one of these big cobalt/lithium exporting countries, on the grounds that they’re being oppressed by an evil government state nationalization program. Ask Gamal Abdel Nasser or Salvadore Allende what happens after that.
Nah, just give like Walmart and Target and other stores that have large parking lots a tax break or something.
FUCK THAT. Levvy additional taxes on any Corp that doesn’t utilize their solar potential while subsidizing the cost of the panels.
Solar panels don’t use any “rare metals.” Solar carport projects simply cost 3-4x more on a per watt basis than large “green field” ground mount projects. This is due to the increased structural, permitting, and install costs. Carports also cannot track the sun, which reduces their output by about 20%.
Plastering agricultural land with parking lots and suburban sprawl is a crime against humanity. This wasteful land use needs to end.
I’ve done a ton of biking in my area over the last 15 years, and it’s been depressing seeing how much former farmland and unused wild area is getting gobbled up by the fucking McMansions and “high 700s” McTownhouses. The townhouses are especially sad - like, you’re out in the middle of fucking nowhere (no town in sight) and yet you’re jammed in with neighbors on both walls?
47 percent of the country is unoccupied.
Unoccupied land is otherwise called “nature” and is quite useful for a lot of things.
Efficiency doesn’t care how big your country is, sprawl would be as inefficient in Cyprus as in Russia, you spread your services and infrastructure over an unnecessarily large area, to huge economic and environmental cost, and forcing people to rely on a car to move around
It also has to be protected from vandals and morons protesting it.
Also, just for laughs, make the support bars too low for modern pickup trucks haha!
You can install solar panels on agricultural land and still farm on it. You just need to install the panels vertically. It’s called agrivoltaics. The photovoltaic cells can actually produce electricity when they are exposed from either side. It’s just that normal solar panels are opaque on the bottoms side. So for a vertical installation you have to use bifacial panels which are transparent on the other side. And the drop in efficiency in a vertical installation isn’t much compared to a traditional installation, since both sides of one panel now produce electricity, even the shaded side that is only exposed to ambient light produces electricity. And they are much more efficient during their peak hours, since it’s much cooler during sunset and sunrise then the middle of the day. PV panels are less efficient when they get hot.
In theory a great idea. In reality you get very little space to farm on. Imagine how you drive though the solar panels with an harvester which is as big as 6 rows are wide?
I mean you can shrink down the farming equipment, but farmers make more money not plastering their fields with solar.
If they use solar then they go full south orientation panels because then you don’t need to deal with anything on that field anymore.
Also after you install solar panels on a field with heavy equipment the soil is pressed and you will have a few years until you get the soil quality back up.
Not everywhere in the world do they use giant combines to farm like in America. And some crops are planted and harvested by hand like asparagus. Would it work on every farm? No but there might be scenarios where it does.
Yeah, when it comes time to do tillage, that’s WILL constrain the directions you can till the ground. Generally, you really want to till at an angle to the direction of planting to break soil compaction better. And to get the proper trash mix into the soil to prevent erosion.
Not a good idea…
Who is gonna tell him that solar panels on roofs exist ☠️☠️☠️
I think you’re kind of missing the point, having solar panels in parking lots would add use to otherwise useless land. There’s plenty of them in the US and it would also create a relief from the concrete hotspots that it makes. I mean have you ever been walking through a parking lot and hating your life because you’re sweating so much?
This idea has been around 20 years…
The problem has always been cost.
Costs that have dropped precipitously over the past 20 years
It’s not the cost of the panels, it’s the cost of the structure to hold them. And the maintenance involved.
There are solar generating facilities literally everywhere now. To mount them high enough to park under is a miniscule cost difference. There are also already massive parking lots with covers all over the place. We have probably 5,000+ covered parking spaces at the airport in my city, for example
I get that. That really makes sense. Tho it kind of makes it harder to then justify getting rid of parking to improve density. But this will most likely also not happen otherwise so yeah
Depends. Some agro-PV systems I have seen are 50% transparent. The plants get a sufficient amount of light, and are protected from hail and heavy rain.
I have even seen a prototype where the pillars for the panels incorporate a rail system on which sowing, weeding, and harvesting tools can run electrically in instead of being pulled by a tractor.
PV coverings also trap some ambient heat and regulate the surface temperature better than full exposure, acting like a greenhouse that encourages plant growth.
Folks so set on zero sum systems that they ignore synergies.
Most of the growth in solar has been market driven. It’s why Texas has a lot of solar despite them subsidizing oil and gas. It’s free, plentiful energy that hits the ground almost every day. If you have boatloads of land that’s not ideal for farming, yet not too hot for much of the year, it makes economic sense.
If the U S didn’t subsidize corn for ethanol it might make even more sense to build solar instead of grow corn. And then you could grow other crops under the solar panels.
Oddly Costco does this.
Improved wool output on farms with solar panels
A few parking lots near us have that and parking there is a treat on hot summer days!
I live near a school playground in Vancouver. In the summer the kids don’t use it because it’s too hot and sunny. In the winter kids don’t use it because it’s wet.
I feel like a solar panel canopy would be 3 birds with one stone.
Yess, vancouverite here also. How do we get our municipalities to do projects like this? There’s so much space that would be perfect real estate for solar canopies
The only reason I would be against this is because it disincentivizes removing large parking lots, which are primarily a waste of space. If we could replace some of that wasted space with housing (which could also have solar slapped on it) that would be ideal.
Parking lots ain’t going anywhere.
My comment specified large parking lots for a reason. The amount of space wasted around seldom used, high volume areas (like stadiums) is absurd, and other countries have shown they’re much better served by increased public transit, not giant parking lots that sit empty 300+ days of the year.
Oh yeah buddy what temp is it outside rn?
Asphalt loves heating cities up
This article is literally about shading the asphalt
Yeah but asphalt is usually chosen due to it being the cheap and easy option, I can’t imagine anywhere that hasn’t already used concrete is happy to spend more on their parking lot unless forced, and tbh if of there’s enough solar panels in the world to match US’s parking lot surface area
The energy generated by commercial solar installations is then sold, generating income. No one’s expecting parking lot owners to do this out of the goodness of their heart
This was a parking lot, now it’s a peaceful oasis!
They are and they must. There is no path forward that doesn’t massively disinvest from personal vehicles.
They must, but they aren’t. The infrastructure investments to make mass transit preferable in sprawling cities will not happen soon enough. The people in power will not compromise their worship of free markets for climate change. Over time, the market will transition that way, but not any faster under the current system.
They are in large cities. Look at aerial photos of, e.g. Washington DC from 20 years ago vs today and you’ll see many fewer parking lots.
Too bad the driving force is gentrification.
US auto-domination isn’t even the result of market forces though.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a fan of laissez-faire policy or capitalism in general, but government funded highway lanes are no more capitalist than government funded rail tracks. The current situation in the US required enormous government intervention to establish, in the form of the forced seizure of property to make way for highways, hundreds of billions of dollars (inflation adjusted) to build those highways, mandatory parking minimums for new construction (to store all the cars from the highway), government subsidies for suburban style development and later on tax schemes that resulted in poorer inner city areas subsidizing wealthy suburbs, and zoning laws that made it illegal to build a business in a residential area (which worked together with anti-loitering laws to make it so that if you didn’t live in a neighborhood you had no “legitimate” reason to be there. It’s not a coincidence this happened in the wake of desegregation.)
Similarly fossil fuel production in the US actually receives direct government subsidies at the federal and sometimes state level (some of which have been in effect since 1916).
Now, we can get into the weeds and talk about how government action is actually a necessary part of capitalism and the intertwined nature of power structures and so on and so forth, but it’s important to remember that there’s nothing inevitable or natural about the mess we’re in right now, as some would have you believe. It required conscious planning and choices, as well as tremendous effort and tremendous injustice to get here.
Oh, I know full well that the free market did not get us here. I’m saying that the politicians will, at best, force us to use the free market to make progress. Rules for thee and whatnot. Things will probably happen more slowly than that, as auto makers will resist the market forces more than we can push in the markets’ direction.
This picture/render looks like it’s in Europe, where that could maybe be feasible. In the US, though, I think we need to take what we can get.
I’ve seen this concept myself built in the Netherlands already, if I’m not mistaken
Ok but like why wouldn’t a solar farm be an acceptable alternative?
Putting solar farms in urban areas instead of rural ones doesn’t make much sense.
How so? A) Less transmission lines to where it’s needed and b) more qualified/trained staff centralized to the solar installs.
I’m not against rural solar by any stretch but I can’t fathom being against urban solar? We need to solar all the things.
In my post I literally said that solar can be put on top of houses so I’m not sure why you want to argue with me about this. I just think urban areas are better served by homes with solar on top than parking lots with solar on top.
Roofed parking would be pretty sick, compared to having your car baked through in the sun. But multi-story parking decks would be even better, or even just parking lots with trees.
It’s not like we’re actually short on space to build solar panels on. We already have lots of roofs.
Whatever we build, it’ll have a top! And on top should be either something green or solar panels.
Yeah, plastering parking lots over prime agricultural land was definitely a mistake. And it’s hard to wind that back. We just need to make sure new infrastructure and planning reduces car dependency rather than further entrenching it.
