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make false premise
le strawman.png
ask lib 196 users to defend false premise
they can’t
they keep defending their own premise that’s actually true ( betacucks lmao)
i’m winning the internet bros
Sorry about the whole stuck w/ trump situation :(
sorry about the whole getting ratioed on an instance without downvotes situation :(
The funny thing is that a vote for Trump doesn’t even add +1 to his total. We need to go back to teaching civics in high school.
I love the “YOU MUST VOTE FOR BIDEN NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES, YOU STUPID FUCK!” set, who don’t realize this attitude is exactly why they’re not winning.
I don’t think anyone is arguing “No matter what he does”.
It’s: look at the two candidates and decide which one is going to be better for the future of your country.
If Biden actually does something outrageous that makes you think “Man, this guy is worse than Trump” then that’s just common sense.
What the fuck do you think “vote blue no matter who” means? Biden could do literally anything, he could nuke Gaza and outlaw trans people and he wouldn’t lose a single liberal vote bc trump worse
All the VBNMH fuckers downvoting me like I’m not 100% right xD the only thing that could actually convince even one of you to not vote for biden is if he stopped supporting Israeli genocide. Yall are fucking pathetic, keep doing your shit and you guarantee that nobody will support you and trump will win
Who would you like us to vote for instead?
They have no answer. Just disinformation shills or plain idiots. What they won’t say is they either support Trump, or are a one of the “burn it all the the ground” fools.
It’s obvious from the way they engage with others here, they want you to not vote so trump has an easier time winning.
Listen to yourself. You’re demonizing an entire group of people and making very broad assumptions based on your own fear, not reality.
You think Biden wouldn’t be treated with the same scrutiny? Based on what? He’s already changing his views and tactics on Gaza now, just today Biden called for a cease fire. Because that’s what politicians do, they listen to their people. In your fantasy where Biden suddenly does the opposite and nukes Gaza, I would be among the first to protest for his immediate arrest and removal from office.
You’re so hellbent on showing how divisive the country is, that you’re actually helping grow that divide. Let’s both learn from this.
Hey look, a liberal too afraid to admit they wanna genocide Palestinians! You’re no different than magats, just as reactionary, just as blindly loyal, just as utterly fucking stupid. Yall are gonna genocide your way into losing the election and blame everyone who didn’t wanna support genocide, meanwhile we’ll all be in camps bc you couldn’t consider for one fucking second that maybe being a massive piece of shit to anyone questioning voting for biden isn’t actually gonna get you more votes. From the river to the sea 🌸🇵🇸🌸
You’re so quick to label everyone a this and that while claiming you also know what they support and why that makes sense and what wouldn’t.
All that to say you are so full of shit that it is spilling out of your mouth. Accusing people of supporting genocide when you have no fucking clue who they are, what they do, who they know, where they are, ANYTHING, is a horrible way to generate discussion. But it works great to get engagement, so I guess you won.
Okay, um, what’s the alternative? Who to vote for? Because that’s what we have to do. You got anyone else that can take down the New Golden Calf? I see accusations and vitriol, but no solutions from you. We aren’t going to conjure up this mystical moral officer you have in your brain from the ether.
None of these dudes realize all we care about is defeating Trump and we know from history that the incumbent will be run. Yes, we all wanted Bernie too, it didn’t happen. Pick your heart up off the floor and let’s stop the tide of fascism covering the world.
I have yet to see a single cogent explanation of what not voting for Biden in the general election will accomplish.
End the genocide? No, we’re likely to just get more genocide.
Put a more progressive third-party candidate in power? Only if everyone gets behind the same extremely popular candidate. No such candidate exists.
Send a message to establishment Democrats and liberals in general? Sure, it would send a message. Exactly how many Palestinian, Ukranian, and American lives are you willing to sacrifice for that, though? Assuming such a gambit even rewards you with a positive outcome in another four years.
WHY WON’T THE PEOPLE I CONSTANTLY DEGRADE AND SCREECH AT VOTE THE WAY I WANT THEM TOOOO 😡
The vote isn’t decided by how many absolute votes someone gets. It’s decided by how many votes they get relative to their opponent. A vote for a third party candidate is a -1 to Biden’s absolute vote count, which is a +1 to Trump’s relative vote count, which, again, is what actually matters.
Something else that gets missed is that the GoP tends to be one solid voting block - They vote pretty monolithically. As such, it almost always benefits the GoP when one votes third party. It’s similar to why the GoP can get stuff passed when in power and the Dems can’t - In fighting and arguments split up votes for only one side, typically
Another excellent point
Funny how a vote for any 3rd party candidate is magically a vote against whoever you like most. Fuck off libtard, earn my vote don’t fucking browbeat me for it
Like real shit how does that logic work? This does nothing to explain how 3rd party = trump. By that logic it’s also a vote against trump (implying there’s actually logic here and not liberals just assuming they’re entitled to all the votes forever no matter what)
This is only aimed at people who would otherwise have voted for Biden. Anyone who would have otherwise voted for Trump, after everything that has happened, is a lost cause and isn’t worth any consideration at all
That’s only true if one assumes the vote would have gone to Biden in the absence of third parties. Again, where is the TOTAL vote count for Trump +1?
You are either misunderstanding what is actually important, or being obtuse in a plea for attention.
Enjoy the fall mate. Get your passport in order ;).
Who the fuck is telling people that smugness in the face of possible fascism, dictatorship, and oppression is an acceptable excuse for leftism. This shit is starting to get disgusting.
“Excuse for leftism” LOL
Mate, the libs like yourself are going to be the reason for Trump…
You can call me a Lib all you want, but having a good idea of what harm reduction is in politics doesn’t negate years of socialist activism.
Hell not having a good idea on what harm reduction in politics is negates efforts of socialist activism
Total votes don’t matter. Trump has never won a popular election. Net votes matter.
If you live in a blue state go wild: follow your conscious. Live your dreams.
If you live in a swing state: practice harm reduction and vote for the less evil genocidal geezer. Because a vote for anyone besides the two is a vote favoring the worse option.
Because a vote for anyone besides the two is a vote favoring the worse option.
Again, where is the TOTAL vote count for Trump +1?
State net is total for American Elections.
You still don’t seem to get it, every vote for a third party, is one more vote that Biden has to overcome to get to the majority, Trump doesn’t need to bother with this as his personality cult seemingly won’t fracture, thereby every third party vote fucks Biden over just a little bit more.
Now this isn’t directly adding to Trump’s total, but it’s fucking Biden by decreasing his, and anything that fucks over Biden will objectively help Trump.
My guess is they’re being intentionally obtuse. What an edgelord intellectual. Best to ignore and move on. Let them get their dopamine hits from pulling wings off a fly.
I realized after commenting that this was the same dude claiming that the Moscow Concert Attack was actually planned by the CIA or State Department or another US Org.
Shouldn’t have even bothered.
alright @Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com pay up 🤨🤨🤨
Smartasses like OP like to make these types of statements — and they’ll refuse to acknowledge anything because they’ll always appeal to a literal claim which, by construction, cannot be. In this case, a vote for X is not literally a vote for Trump; it may be effectively, mathematically, or implicitly a vote for Trump, but because it is not literally voting for Trump they just smile like an inebriated donkey and say “nuh-uh not the same lol XD.”
Sounds like you won some money and +1 to his vote count. Oh? They were just being divisive and knew exactly what they were doing? Color me surprised.
Damn, I could really use a million dollars
A vote for a third party candidate is a -1 to Biden’s absolute vote count
That’s only true if one assumes the vote would have gone to Biden in the absense of third parties.
It’s just as likely that the voter would have voted for nobody or Trump, so at best you are only 1/3rd correct.
This !!! I love seeing liberals just assume anyone who votes 3rd party would otherwise go blue
What third party is there that has such completely opposite politics to the Democratic Party so much that the vote wouldn’t be going blue.
Libertarians, Reform, Constitutionalist, and other Republican-lote groups don’t count*
It’s typically a safe assumption as most of the time when people are talking about voting third party the third party candidate is most similar to the Democrat on the ballot.
But of course if the person wasn’t going to vote if the third party candidate wasn’t on the ballot then their lack of a vote is ensuring that the candidate they like the least has an easier time winning.
We’re talking specifically about people who want a more progressive candidate who won’t back a genocide. No, I don’t think such people are likely to vote for Trump.
People with leftist principles aren’t equally likely to support all candidates in an election. You have to take the sampling bias into account.
This argument starts with the assumption that Biden is bad but Trump is worse. The goal is to minimize Trump’s relative score compared to Biden.
So there are 3 options:
- vote for Trump, +1 to Trump’s relative score
- vote for Biden, -1 to Trump’s relative score
- vote for neither or don’t vote at all, +0 to Trump’s relative score
Voting for neither or not voting is 1 point worse than voting for Biden.
In our First-Past-the-Post voting system voting for a third party means the candidate you hate the most has an easier time winning.
For example:
You have 3 candidates in an election, A, B, and C
You like candidate A but their from a small party, you don’t like B, and you hate C.
Candidate A and B are similar in some regards but differ in some things you feel are massively important. Candidate B and C are very different on most issues. C even talks about wanting to end democracy as we know it.
In the election A gets 25%, B gets 35%, and C gets 40%.
C is declared the winner as they got the highest percentage even though 60% of people didn’t want them to win.
This is why third party candidates are often referred to as “spoiler candidates” here in the states. They split the vote of a major party making another party have an easier time winning.
Does this suck? Abso-fucking-lutely yes.
Is our current system pretty fucked? Again, yes.
Will letting candidate C have an easier time winning fix this problem? No, no it will not.
There are more elections than just the presidential election, participate in those too as they are also very very important. Call your local representatives, try to gain support for getting a better system in your state. Talk with people in your community about how our current system is pretty borkedand ways to fix it. Fixing our voting system will (unfortunately) take time and a lot of local efforts all over the country. In my home state there’s currently a push for ranked choice voting that’s gathering more support, it will only succeed if people talk about it with each other and push for it together.
Unfortunately this presidential election I’m going to vote for Biden even though I’m not a big fan. Trump (or any Republican for that matter) is so much worse than him though.
Ok but consider the following
Absolutely reach out to your representatives (I even encouraged it in my comment)
They’re your representatives, they represent the opinions of their constituents.
Especially reach out to your local reps as they are way more likely to be easily reachable. And your local reps are going to have way more access to other reps than you do.
Nice false premise.
ITT: Americans trying to figure how best to participate in their pseudo-democratic puppet show.
If only Bernie had laser vision and dual wielded AR-16’s… :(
It’s the best we’ve got for now, unfortunately. And yeah, it sucks ass. Hope we get to see FPTP die in my lifetime, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
in every thread: some annoying tone deaf account (you in this case) making fun of people who are making every effort not to lose their fucken rights.
but oh yeah it’s the victims of oppression who are the real annoyances, my bad :/
The question you are asked to answer when you vote is not “do you want Biden to be president?”.
The question is “Would you rather have Trump or Biden as president?”
Your answer is allowed to be:
- Biden
- Trump
- I don’t mind either way.
That’s the nature of the first-past-the-post voting system.
