Russia just cannot be trusted. Over and over and over again, they show this to the world.
Countries need to stop giving Russia ‘one more chance’. Treat the Russian government like the fraudulent, evil pariahs that they reveal themselves to be.
Yeah, I cannot even understand what the future should look like with Russia. What can they do to gain any trust, or will we just keep going in a world where the West just doesn’t have any relations with Russia? I guess it worked in the 1900s in some way.
Russia as a federated state has to fall apart. No way around that.
It should have happened after the second world war, but Stalin managed to flip his colors to look like a reasonable option and persisted in the state. Now the debt comes with accumulated interest.
Lies, gentlemen.
What’s your point?
Sorry, thought the quote was more obvious.
This isn’t just a matter of trust in Russian government.
Many Russians and Finns are connected one way or the other - quite some Finns have relatives in Russia (especially Karelia and Saint Petersburg), and quite some Russians have relatives and close ones in Finland. This kind of shitshow breaks down families and leads to immense levels of suffering, and that’s not “all Putin’s fault” (even though he did a lot of shit to get us where we are)
Russia has shown interest in solving the issue together, and Finland works on legislation to stop asylum seekers without closing the border.
But the idiocy of what happened yesterday is hard to describe. “We will keep borders open unless they are gonna come again”. OF COURSE THEY WILL, THEY WAITED ON THAT BORDER FFS. At that point, Russian government can do very little to stop these particular people from going there.
Not to mention this is extremely inhumane on the side of Finnish government and only comes as a result of immigration crisis caused by uneven distribution on asylum seekers inside the EU - but as sealing borders with EU, from which majority of them come, is super impractical and politically consequential, they are gonna focus on just a few, the minority, coming through Russia. It is reactionary measure against a long overlooked issue.
well, wtf did they think would happen?
Where are the migrants from? I assume they aren’t Russian nationals. It seems odd that Russia is trying to use them to bolster their own population. I get that this is probably an attempt to destabilize a Western country, but still Russia could use the people.
In local news our national broadcaster and right wing rags have reported that most of these newcomers are from Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Somalia.
Source: I’m a finn myself.
Here’s also a link to a relevant news story from our national broadcaster YLE’s english version, if you’re interested to read more: https://yle.fi/a/74-20062259
Hmm interesting, thank you for the article. I wonder if this is more of a Russian trying to get rid of migrants of a mistrusted group and have a convention enemy to push them on to or a planned operation to draw them to Russia to use them as international political fodder.
Perhaps both. There are also news reports that some of these migrants now stuck in Russia are being pressured by russian military authorities to sign contracts to go fight in Ukraine, in exchange getting Russian citizenship later. More cannon fodder to the grinder…
Migrants have always been a big part of Russia’s workforce, and while the population’s opinion on them varies (as it does everywhere), Russian government didn’t show much hostility to migrants, and they are vital for Russian economy.
Getting rid of migrants is undermining Russia.
It’s just busses of migrants but Russia instead of a republican
Perkele?
It’s just an attempt to sow discord in Finland. Nothing more.
Russia isn’t using them because Russia’s calcified bureaucracy is very procedure-oriented, even if not very law-oriented, and the procedures for conscripting non-citizens are non-existent.
I just read an article a week ago about Nepalese fighting for Russia so I think that if Russia wanted to impress them they would.
Hiring is different from conscription, both in practical and procedural terms.
I feel it’s a huge overstatement and reactionary policy.
A dozen or two of migrants a day will not kill Finland in any way. Way, WAY more of them came through other EU countries, yet they’re obvioisly not gonna shut EU borders.
This is very political.
Why can’t Russia take care of them?
Because they are already there and don’t break any laws. It’s not illegal to be in Russia, including near the border (although it does and always did enforce additional control in regions next to borders)
Russia can restrict new people coming into the country (a measure that will be very bad for Russia itself), but it can’t just remove the people that are already legally in.
They could stop driving them to the border for a start.
Not that it’s a Russian State Bus.
Those are commercial, and legally grey, not black.
And you can’t stop all buses - absolute majority of them drive legitimate Finnish residents, and asylum seekers will just switch to cars.
Not even refugees want to live in Russia, and Russia doesn’t want them either.
It’s about precedent. Finland already have their fucked up neighbour Sweden as a cautionary tale when it comes to refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants from the ME/Africa.
The point is, it comes from Finland as part of sudden shift from welcoming everyone longer than Finland can afford, to being shut off to compensate, and not from Russia being evil and waging a hybrid war trying to destabilize the country.
Radical turns like these are quite common as part of right-wingers coming to power, and they are pretty much always detrimental and irrational.
As much as Russia has a lot to be blamed for, here it acts as scapegoat to cover for right-wing crackdowns. It’s important never to take automatic stances, even in relation to pariah states, while keeping vigilance to see when they really try to strike.
I think they spelled “refugees” wrong. /s
They could build a wall of metal bands that would stretch the length of the country
No shit, people don’t want to live in crappy conditions. Why do people always thing immigrants are a bad thing?
Immigrants aren’t always a bad thing, but sometimes immigrants fail or outright refuse to integrate into their new home and instead try to change their new home to be similar to the place they left behind. Which is kind of ironic because the reason they left was because they didn’t like it there, but then they eventually end up creating the same situation that made them leave.
Additionally, immigrants can have negative economic impacts like if they undercut other workers. If they take jobs at lower pay than usual, then the original population workers who are already working are fired and replaced with the cheaper labor, causing unemployment in the original population. Different cultures have different common crimes which are usually carried over with immigrants that refuse to integrate into their new home. Differences between the immigrants and original population lead to new emergent crimes as well.
Its not that immigrants or immigration is bad. This certainly doesn’t apply to every immigrant, or even every immigrant from a specific culture. The problem is when immigrants do not integrate, whether they were not educated enough or whether they intentionally refuse to. It can wreak all sorts of havoc on a nations stability, economy, etc., depending on how much of an influx of migration occurs.
Yeah, those damn libs bringing their woke ideas to red states.
They should just stay where they are or learn to integrate!
I’m not sure if this is sarcastic, but either way it’s a pretty awful take.
I’m just highlighting how his rhetoric is the exact same rhetoric conservatives use to blame liberals for influencing their politics.
US centrism. Grow up, this is not a post about dysfunctional US politics.
Oh right my bad, it’s okay when we do it.
This is a super racist take on immigration. People want to feel like their culture they came from isn’t gone. And that’s very understandable, and not a problem even. Just wanted to let you know, you probably don’t think you’re racist, because nobody wants to think of themselves as racist. But you’ve got some implicit biases you might want to turn inward and look at very seriously. Or you can just ignore me, what the hell do I care, I’m just a random stranger on the internet.
This isn’t racist, but that has become a pretty popular term to call people lately.
Different cultures are not bad. I even say they’re good. For example, people who complain about stuff like “cultural appropriation” make me laugh. They want to hoard their culture to themselves, rather than celebrate that more people are taking an interest in their culture.
The problem, as I said, is migrants that do not integrate. Which is not all migrants. Cultures can be integrated and blended together, you see it all over the USA. But there are some migrants that hold onto their culture like a dragon hoarding gold, and you can practically see it like a wall in a city. They refuse to integrate and instead maintain a hard line between them and the original population. It’s like pockets of different countries within a culturally mixed country, rather than people of different cultures living together.
I think it’s reasonable to complain about cultural appropriation when someone is taking something from another culture with no appreciation or understanding for the meaning of that thing in the context of that culture.
For example, if I was to go around wearing a purple heart despite the fact that I haven’t served in the military nor have I been wounded in action, many people would be rightfully offended. Many people don’t want to actually learn about other cultures, they just want to wear them as a costume or fashion statement which is what gets them into trouble.
I don’t think that’s a problem. Even if a person has no idea why a culture does something, but they like how it looks, I smile when I see them attempting to copy it. Even if they get it wrong, they thought that part of the culture was cool. And maybe them replicating incorrectly can lead to a new emergent culture.
I think a military medal is a bit different from something like cultural specific clothing, foods, or music. That calls into it stolen valor, which is a different issue. But putting a purple colored heart shape onto something isn’t a problem.
Additionally, costumes aren’t a problem either, so long as it is worn in an appropriate place. For example, wearing a military costume to a costume party, or other event where people are expected to wear costumes. It wouldn’t be appropriate to wear a military costume when trying to enter a military complex or parade, but that is generally pretty obvious to anyone regardless of culture.
People wear Native American headdresses even though those are directly tied to martial feats just like a Purple Heart is. I see it at Chiefs games in Kansas City. Is it not still stolen valor? What if I dressed up as a Muslim Sheikh and proceeded to get wasted at a party? My actions would be incongruous with how someone from that culture would act.
I think intent matters and so long as a person attempts to be respectful and actually learn about the culture they’re imitating it’s not a big deal but I find that’s often not the case.
Wearing a native american headdress to a Chiefs game would not be considered stolen valor unless the person is implying that they are actually a native american chief, just as wearing a purple heart previously mentioned would constitute stolen valor if the person implies that they were injured in the military but infact were not.
If there was a football team like “New Jersey Admirals,” then I don’t think it would be unusual or stolen valor for people attending to dress in an admiral costume. They are replicating the mascot of the sport team, not implying that they themselves are actually admirals of a military.
If you dressed as a Sikh and attended the party, intent may come into play if the party was not one where attendees would be wearing costumes or clothing not common to the culture of the surrounding area. Was the person wearing the clothing because they liked it, or were they intentionally trying to slander people of a specific culture? Is targetted slander the same as wearing something you like the look of? Even if the person is not being respectful and makes no effort to learn about the culture, is it really worth it to be mad about instead of being happy to see some elements of your culture being spread to places where it may not have otherwise?
For example, Americans are often called fat, lazy, unintelligent, gun crazy anarchists, and are portrayed by many foreign media as such. I don’t get offended at charicatures of Americans from other countries or nations. Partially because its kinda true, but also it means that the other nation is being introduced to Americans. Some people may see that and think “That’s ridiculous, they can’t all be like that,” leading those interested to look it up and see what America is about or like. Some may choose to vacation where they otherwise may have never taken an interest in America. I mean, I wouldn’t recommend it because America kinda sucks depending on where they go, but its only an example.
Yeah, that’s about the response I expected. Have fun being racist dickhead. I hope you don’t live anywhere close to me.
Can you name the race they were being racist towards?
Fuck off with your whining
This is the internet. I’m pretty much free to do what I want short of violating the rules of this website.
Integration should be expected. It’s not in any way racist to expect it. Do you even know what racism is?
Well in the case of Russia it seems the safer play to not allow them in. Or next thing you know you have separatist republics set up trying to become Russian oblasts.
Depends on the country that they are emigrating too. Where I am from we are short on housing and have a stressed healthcare system. Immigrants likely would put stress on both of those systems, despite benefits to other areas of the country. But the other areas they would benefit probably wouldn’t outweigh the stress on housing and healthcare.
Because providing housing and jobs to hundreds of people per day from a country with a language barrier that probably (most definitely) is scheming to invade in the near future is a good thing?
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Oh right, forgive me. For a second there I thought Russia was acting irrational, silly me
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Thats a hindsight error. Before the invasion everyone argued that a full on war on Ukraine would be insanely stupid due to the economic implications of being a pariah state.
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Technically speaking Grand Duchy of Finland (1809-1917), which was a state inside the Russian Empire, existed for longer than independent Finland has so far. That will change in 2025, if we get that far.
I believe Russian Imperialists are looking at this area because of that history. Dunno how seriously, but NATO and the DCA should put a cork in that.
Do you think the entire Russian population is scheming against Finland? Because they’re not. The shitty ass government and the Russian people are not synonymous with one another.
Isn’t Finland’s responsibility to absorb Russia’s mess.
Over 80 % of Russians support the war in Ukraine. This whole ‘Putin isnt the Russian population’ is just an excuse to not look like a country of fachists. Germany after WW2 did the same.
Just because propaganda is effective doesn’t mean you should dehumanize them. They’re people just like you and me. Hell, after 9/11, I’m pretty sure like 80% of the U.S. supported invading Iraq… just depends on where you are, and what information you are being fed.
We dehumanized the germans in early 1900s too for understandable reasons, even though not all germans in WW2 were nazis. Perhaps that shouldn’t be done, but when it looks from the outside like the whole nation is walking lockstep with its leaders, it’s difficult not to.
Yeah, and it turned out the majority of the population didn’t even know about the concentration camps.
Thats just post-war propaganda. I am german and while the Germans tried to bury their involvement post war, during the student protests of 1968 it became clear that the vast majority knew about concentration camps and was collaborating. Even my own great-grandma said that she had nothing to do with the Nazis and didn’t know what happened. After her death I did some research into family history and saw that my great-grandfather was actually Gauleiter, so the highest ranked Nazi in a specific region and personally signed the deportation of the jews.
Obviously it’s not the people’s fault that their government keeps using them as an excuse to invade their neighbors. That doesn’t mean their neighbors need to be fucking idiots and load a gun, point it at their own head, and say pweetty pwease don’t pull it.
Of course not. I also didn’t think every single person I ran into had Covid. That didn’t mean I would shake hands with anyone offering.
But either way, it still doesn’t change the problem with housing and work.
Why do people always thing immigrants are a bad thing?
Mostly because they are a burden for the social system (which is already highly strained in Finland), and because of the criminal element they bring in. Then again, perhaps more immigrants will eventually convince the people to stop supporting those social systems, which would ultimately be a good thing for everybody.
