danhakimi

The people of Palestine are not second-class citizens of Israel, they are first-class citizens of Palestine. There is only one level of citizenship in Israel, and all citizens are afforded the full rights of any citizen. Every concession Israel offered the Palestinians was either rejected or used as an opportunity to ramp up terrorism. Look up the Olmert deal. Look up the withdrawal from Gaza. Look up the god damn Peel commission. We’ve constantly been vying for peace, and we’ve constantly been made to regret it.

There is no slavery in Israel or Palestine. There is no “a part-time” either. If you’re gonna make up antisemitic lies, the least you could do is check your damn speech-to-text.

Fuck you, I hope you don’t die, I hope you learn the vile nature of your lies and hate and the ashes they leave on your mouth cause you to grow the fuck up.

so are you still standing by your claim that the attacks are over? should I continue to cite attacks as they happen? or are you going to admit that the attacks are ongoing?

Medical care is compromised by the lack of power. The reason Israel cut off power was not to compromise medical care. The reason Israel cut off power was a military strategy to impede production and firing of rockets. I already pointed that out, but you’ve been entirely dishonest about it. You’ll ignore the point again in your next comment, won’t you?

You linked to a live thread, not to a source specific to water. I managed to find one bullet point on that page about a siege that covers water. I don’t think siege warfare is generally viewed as a form of reprisal. From what I understand, starvation is generally illegal under most treaties, but requires a “high degree of deprivation.”. From what I understand, Gaza is near water, and has access to food and water both internally, via Egypt, via its sea border, etc., etc. So… meh. We’ll see if it actually plays out as a starvation tactic, versus a tactic to shut down supply to enemy combatants and rocket manufacturing.

You are missing the point, I have defended my thesis with a couple of facts and even provided a link, your point is only based on assumptions and you failed to deliver any verifiable fact.

If the link you presented had anything to do with the paragraph you presented in, I absolutely missed it, can you please draw the connection for me?

I have asked you to provide any verifiable link of convicted IDF soldiers, but you did not.

I missed that.

https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/IDF-soldier-convicted-of-killing-Gaza-rioter-606298

That’s the first one I could find, I’m busy, what with it being Simchat Torah in the diaspora.

Anything to say about the Jenin refugee camp, do you think using excessive violence there was justifiable?

Well, you begged the question there, and I’m not intimately familiar with the situation, but from what I understand, not particularly, no.

Have you ever wondered why Israel is not a member of the ICC, or which other countries are not part and why?

No. I never cared. I don’t know why Israel would subject itself to any kind of international jurisdiction, with the way the international community treats it. Have you seen how obsessed the UN securuity council is with Israel, while it ignores human rights violations everywhere else in the world? Why the fuck would we want to invite more of that?

I just looked it up, Israel stated its reasons, it objects to the language about population transfer: https://press.un.org/en/1998/19980720.l2889.html. I’m sure you have a much more conspiratorial reason in mind?

And I’m familiar with fucking Amnesty International and HRW, I’m not living under a rock.

I mean, what she’s describing has kind of happened. But it’s not like Americans are coming over and building their own homes at the behest of Israeli chasids. The settlements are being built by greedy land developers, and Netanyahu is turning a blind eye for… well, complex reasons, but ultimately mostly because he’s a corrupt dirtbag.

Some people do go to live on hippie kibbutzim.

The British took the colony from the Ottoman Turks—not from any people.

There were Arabs / Muslims in Palestine in the 1800s, but they were mostly centered in a few areas, and very many were there temporarily—making pilgrimage, there on business, etc. Early Zionists settled areas that were yet unsettled, most obviously areas near Jaffa that became Tel Aviv, but also in many rural parts of the country.

Fun fact, the current population of Palestine is about fifteen times what it was (in the entire region) in the 1800s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Palestine_(region). There is no timeline on which their population went down.

I did not ask you for security. I’m more than satisfied for Israel to defend itself. Your continued attempts to demonize us for doing so are quite sad.

Oh so your point is that Israeli civilian casualties matter more, right?

I don’t appreciate the way you’re intentionally dodging my point and then intentionally mischaracterizing it.

My point is that Hamas is trying to increase the count of civilian casualties on both sides, and the IDF is trying to decrease civilian casualties on both sides.

You’re just counting the victims. Look at the perpetrators for just a second.

Plus the whole fact that Israel is not a member of the ICC speaks volumes about their human rights track record

does it? How so?

Plus it is not like Israeli politicians are not complicit by inciting racial hatred by stating that certain Palestinian villages must be erased.

There are a few Israeli extremists who say shit like this. They’re monsters. The vast majority do not speak like this. As opposed to the majority members of the Palestinian Authority. A majority of the PA is literally members of Hamas, truly committed to the deaths all Israelis and all Jews they can get their hands on, as evidenced not only by their charter but by their actions.

Unfortunately, the current majority in Israel is not interested in enforcing rules against expanding settlements. That does suck. But the bulk of the minority—which is likely to take control in the next election, unless this crisis changed things—is very willing to reign in settlements.

If your lies were documented at all, you’d cite a source. Luckily, people can look these things up on Google.

Here’s an article from 234 days into the year, from Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/8/22/more-than-200-palestinians-nearly-30-israelis-killed-so-far-this-year-un. That number is not limited to children, it’s mostly active enemy combatants.

The Israelis murder and kidnap Palestinian children on an almost daily basis.

Lol, you assholes just love the fact that nobody’s going to look this up on Google.

Not even close. Total Palestinian deaths this year are around 2-300, by Hamas estimates, and are mostly adults engaged in terrorism, although Hamas refuses to distinguish. That number likely also includes Palestinian victims of friendly fire. Kidnappings are negligible—unless you count arresting a terrorist as kidnnapping. Palestinian children have died, but it’s nowhere near daily or even weekly.

please, remind me, are the attacks over yet?

There have been Jews living there through those thousands of years, but if you’re referring to the immigration of the late 1800s and early 1900s, most of the land was unsettled, there weren’t many people living there at all. As we began to settle the British colony, Turks, Syrians, Jordanians, and other Arabs started to move there. They absolutely do not have more claim to the land than we do.

This would not justify genocide, which is why we are not engaged in genocide.

Israel is the only place we feel safe. We are still not interested in your opinions on our safety.

I mean, it’s usually more like… Jews the world over are sick of their home countries and want to live in Israel, don’t realize how expensive it is, go there, can’t afford housing in Israel proper, and are told they can go live in the settlements. Or, demand causes Jews in Israel to seek cheaper housing.

Which is still an issue, but your conception is really not the norm.

“Hamas may be using its civilians as meat shields, but no matter how careful Israel is, you’re not allowed to call them careful because many of the meat shields still end up dying!”

You’re a Hamas apologist. I haven’t defended anything that could be called apartheid, and wouldn’t. But go ahead and blame me for citing facts.

https://jcpa.org/the-gaza-war-2014/israel-gaza-humanitarian-law-civilian-casualties/

https://kbin.social/m/Israel/t/368817/A-handy-list-of-sources-describing-where-Hamas-produces-stores

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-usa-gaza-idUSKBN0IQ2LH20141106

I’m so confused, “various Jewish countries?”

Do you really believe that there won’t be any retaliation strikes from Israel that won’t involve civilian deaths on the Palestinian side? Because if you do you are a fool!

I didn’t say that.

I really don’t think Israel will target any civilians. Some rogue IDF soldiers have done so in the past, but it’s rare and generally punished quite quickly.

I can’t say which side will suffer more civilian casualties, but I know that Hamas’s goal is to cause as many as possible, and Israel is making very active efforts to cause as few as possible. The fact that Israel is well-equipped to defend itself and Hamas doesn’t feel like it will, inevitably, skew the statistics.

lol what?

“Genocide” is really hard to argue when their population keeps going up and most of the people being killed are active enemy combattants who target civilians.

“Apartheid” is hard to argue for a totally egalitarian state on the basis that it has borders. Oh no! The US is engaged in Apartheid with Mexico! The Apartheid lie is very easy to argue against, because there’s no basis for it.

I believe my people have a claim to the land of Israel because our ancestors live there—we didn’t live there because God says though, we lived there because we actually lived there, and there is no shortage of evidence in this matter, there is no room for doubt—and because my people have a right to self-determination in their homeland, as all other people everywhere do, and because my people have been ostracized and oppressed and killed in every other place we’ve attempted to make our homes in, and because our safety is not conditioned on your approval.

Self-defense against this little teenage monster, huh? https://www.instagram.com/p/CyG1HdsA5I9/

There’s no such thing as self-defense against a civilian who never hurt anybody.

These are not incidental victims while the terrorists target the IDF. These are the targets. They are targeting innocent little girls.

Yes, murdering and kidnapping civilians is inexcusable, why would that be excusable?

The Palestinian Mandate was, at the time, Britain’s “own land.” The indigenous people of Judea rebelled against the British and declared their independence. Give Wales to the Welsh and Ireland to the Irish, the Jews have no connection to or interest in Wales, it’s patently ridiculous to think we would want to live there.

are the attacks over now?