They do things against gog.

In France there are two turns for the president election. The first turn usually has many parties, but because there are only two in the second turn, the first vote is often tactical. You vote for the one you prefer that you think has a chance at the second turn. This means there are a lot of negociations before the election between the parties, alliances and formation of large parties. The left is often divided, and thus often lose.

But there is a second election for the parliament. Unfortunately it’s still a vote for one person over two turns, but it’s regionalized, so depending on the demographics it can change.

So the situation is not as dire in France I’d say. The right is still liberal in France and not yet fully fascist. And even if we had a far right president, there would be another round for the parliament where the far right showed it’s complete incompetency.

The problem today is that the liberals think they can play with the fire and get away with it. And that they are slowly turning fascist themselves. They must come back to talking with the left rather than with the far right.

So indeed we must talk to the liberals at some point, but in my opinion they must lose the power first to get back to reason, and they must do it before our democracy is too weak for it to be dangerous in the hands of the far right.

If what you’re telling me is right, the fight to save the US was lost like 20 years ago. Now you’re left scooping the flood. The real problem is that the republican party is rotten to the core, that money matters, and media are used for propaganda. Will any of this be worked on in the next term? I doubt it. So in 4 years will it be back to square 1?

You really should stop with the ad hominem. I am irrelevant to the discussion because I’m not even a US citizen. I don’t live in the US.

Now this is a far better and more convincing argumentation than the “vote Biden or else we’re doomed” of the beginning.

You’re distorting my words. So either you don’t understand, you didn’t read, or you don’t care.

I’m not equating liberalism and fascism. They’re not the same. What I’m saying is that liberalism leads to fascism. And thus, blaming leftists for not voting for liberals is dishonest.

The fault is not on the leftist. It is on the liberals. And voting liberals will not save you from fascism. It merely makes you an accomplice of the liberals, because they will claim your vote to support their policies.

Your whole argumentation is based on the fear of fascism. That’s barely better than fascism that relies on the fear of immigrants.

And nothing good can happen during these primaries?

So you have no choice for this election. It’s sad, but it seems to be what it is. But what then?

If Biden is elected again, what will happen next term? You hope trump will die or finally end in prison? How long will you keep fascism at bay like this? How is it that there is half a year left before the election and you’re already in this dire situation?

After all this conversation you still don’t understand. This is sad.

Liberals are already fighting leftists. With more subtle ways than fascists are doing, but they are fighting hard.

In France the liberals spent months to convince people that the left was more dangerous than the fascists. They are litteraly fighting the left with the police. Forbidding protests and breaking them with heavy police forces. They are cooperating with the fascists, making laws with them against immigration and workers.

Basically the liberals are turning fascist light in order to fight the left. It’s the most violent, the most radical Liberal government the Vth Republic had. Some conservative are also talking about giving the president a third run eventhough that’s forbidden by the constitution.

The liberals don’t fight fascism. They never did and they will never do it. They ally with them when they feel threatened. They join them when they feel there’s an opportunity to do it.

It’s been 40 years of this game in France. Liberals pretend to be left. When in power, they betray and do hard liberalism instead. And they blame all the problems on a lack of liberalism, and on immigration. Exactly like the fascists. So naturally people go to the far right.

What’s left is two nuances of fascism.

The left is fighting still though. The fight is to be done on the left first sadly, because so many people are trying to win the race, believing that the liberals in power are not so bad in the meantime.

I’d rather have a fascist leader so that the liberals may wake up while the State is still robust enough to not turn this into a disaster. Because the longer we wait, the more the liberals will dismantle everything. And when there’s no barrier, no counterpower, and they already started political repression, then the fascists will only have to do the same, but better.

Maybe that’s why you’re so scared btw. Maybe your country already lost too many of its defenses against fascism. If it is the case, you’re doomed. It’s already too late. You’re fighting to save a sinking ship.

I’m not gonna vote in your country, but I will do everything I can for mine to not turn into a sinking ship. And it means not supporting the people who are actively sabotaging it.

That cannot be argued. Because that would make it a parody of democracy like China or Russia.

Either you can not vote for either candidate, or your democracy is not worth more than those parodies of it.

You’re not making things better. You’re trying for things to not be too much worse.

When the choices are both bad, I don’t want to be an accomplice to any of them. I don’t want to validate any of them. Because they’re both bad. There just happen to be one worse than the other. But it’ll happen eventually anyway regardless of your choice in this election.

The liberals are empowering fascism. Which is the problem you seem blind to.

But as always liberals will never be accountable for their faults, and when fascism rise they blame it on the left. Exactly as you’re doing.

So you’re actually the desperate one if you think that not voting this election is committing suicide.

And what are you doing in this game 1 exactly to succeed? Voting for the lesser evil? Unless something is in the bag for the next term to radically change how it’s going, it’ll only get worse. I don’t see how a liberal will radically change anything.

This battle is lost already. It was lost when Biden was made the candidate. Now it’s time to prepare for the next battle. Because fighting this one will only make you weaker for the next one.

I’m not fueling any fire. It’s already burning, and voting for liberals is what fuels the fire.

You’re talking about US politics. Isn’t the situation dire already? Republican already are indirectly supporting Russian war, fomenting civil war, and destroying people rights. Are you telling me that media are overstating all of this? That the situation is fine actually and it can go like this for many more years yet?

How did it got better with Biden in 3 and a half year?

It would have been worst is always the predicament of the liberals. Everything else is worse. There is no alternative. But it’s a dead end. And we’re on the wall already.

Supporting the liberals is fighting those who want to make a better world. It’s supporting fascism.

And to get back to the subject : not voting is a right, and it is the only vote that doesn’t support fascism.

Another thing : my view is not doomerism. I merely stop to fight for the liberals. Chaos bring opportunities. Liberals are doing everything to keep a status that’s rottening. They are actively supporting fascism to keep the status quo. I’m not sure if they’re blinding themselves into believing that they can keep the fascism away, or if they are actively pushing for it willingly. But it’s happening.

I’m not saying that all is lost and there’s no hope. I’m saying that helping the liberals today is only helping the fascists tomorrow. Things will get worse. That’s not doomerism, that’s a hard fact. Something must be done now.

You don’t understand. I did not deluded myself to anything. I abandoned a system that’s working against so many people.

The question is not for the left whether to support liberals or fascists. The question is for liberals whether to support socialism or fascism. It’s the people in power who get to choose. And liberals are in power for so many decades that they have no excuse for the shit we’re in now.

A democracy where you vote against a candidate is a failed democracy.

You’re trying to read too much into this.

When the state doesn’t work for enough people anymore, it collapses into fascism. It always does. Unless it collapses to foreign forces of course.

Accelerationism at this point is merely an argument for liberals to convince people who are not fascists to support their liberalism as a lesser danger.

It won’t work. Liberalism will have to do something, not the people who don’t believe the bullshit anymore. And interestingly, throughout history, liberals always choose fascism over anything else that would remove them some power.

So don’t pretend it’s up to the leftists to choose. You, the liberals, did this to the world. Time to open your eyes.

Liberalism is responsible for this fascist doom, not the left. That’s not only true for the US. That’s also true for all of Europe. Liberals vanquished the left. Now is the time to fight fascism. That’s what you earned. The left will fight. Will the liberals do it?

Huh I guess it works in the US where life expectancy is several years lower than in Europe?

My parents still have the 20 to 30 years in front of them. I’ll be retired by then…

Purging heretic with bolters, flamers and chainswords!