The Sweden Democrats, once an openly Nazi but now a “not Nazis we promise” party are in the government. Like all “not Nazis” they spend most of their time looking for nebulous reasons to remove foreigners from the country.

We should have acted a year ago

Israelis concerned about morality should refuse to serve in the IDF at all and take the jail time instead.

For those who didn’t, they obviously believe in what they’re doing to some extent and I’m not convinced that the incentives are really there to do the right thing. What is the consequence for committing the war crime? It is non existent. Straight up. So if you risk punishment by refusing, why would you?

Again, if you have morals you should lay down your arms and fucking leave Gaza immediately. Refusing one order is pointless when there are war crimes committed every day.

So a low estimate of deaths (not counting people under the rubble for instance) and Israel’s claim on the number of Hamas dead.

Absolutely it will take years! So all claims about civilian to militant ratio in Gaza are unreliable and we should probably not make them

It’s generally not allowed under international law to target civilians. Civilians getting killed when military objectives are targeted are legal. Proportionally and necessity come into play here.

This is true but it’s only fine if you target “fighters” according to the blog. So it depends on the details of who these people exactly were, just being in Hezbollah is not enough. As you said it’s whether it’s truly proportional and necessary.

And for the targeting thing I think the main issue is whether it was possible in this case to control or even minimize the collateral damage. Since you don’t really know the situation you’re setting a bomb off in:

The targeting law concern will be more likely to centre on whether adequate consideration was given to the incidental injury and damage to be expected from these explosions, given, as is assumed to be the case, that those planning and conducting the operation cannot have known the circumstances that would pertain where each of the large number of explosions took place.

As you said, don’t confuse targeting with who gets hurt at the end. It didn’t come out too bad (by Israel’s standards at least) but that doesn’t mean they exercised the due care in how they did it, legally.

Compare that go Gaza, which has about 2 to 3 civilians per combatant killed.

Would be interested to see where you got those numbers

Very informative! Basically if I understand correctly: exploding pagers are illegal weapons anyway. But putting that to one side, if all of the targets were “fighters” (and not just Hezbollah in some other political/organizational/whatever capacity) then it might be ok, depending on the details of the targeting law the blog doesn’t cover much. But it seems they also weren’t all fighters sooo…

Even the targeting thing is debatable because they clearly couldn’t really predict the exact situation at the time, so how could they take the care to avoid civilian casualties?

Interesting how Hamas not releasing the hostages means that a whole fucking shitload of people who are not in Hamas are purposefully starved. It’s like they’re being… collectively punished.

Did you read the article? Among many other points:

Around 70% of all water and sanitation facilities in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged, the WASH Cluster, a United Nations-led group that coordinates humanitarian efforts for water, sanitation and hygiene, said on July 24, citing satellite analysis from the UN Satellite Centre.

And look at the headline. If there was “more than enough” generally, why would anyone do that?

The situation there is shitty, but to the blame of all the suffering on Israel alone is just plain wrong.

I didn’t do that. It’s just mainly their fault

What happens when you systematically deprive millions of people of food again? Either Israel doesn’t know the answer to this question or it’s a blatant GENOCIDAL ACT. There is literally no other option.

Since you ignored the question I can only assume the answer is yes.

Do you think this justifies depriving millions of people of clean drinking water?

No duuuude you don’t understand, they’re totally evil! We need - NEED - to be able to assassinate people on foreign soil and commit a genocide with no consequences bro. If they fight back that’s just proof of how terroristy they are. Come on bro we have to secure peace and protect democracy bro, just a few more bombs bro we swear

No guys they’re like, a SUPER important partner in the middle East. They’re just defending themselves bro. That Palestinian kid was going to become Hamas one day. Yeah but dude it’s the only democracy in the middle east! We have to support them, right?! Maybe they do some war crimes, but you have to think about how many war crimes we’re preventing in the process. Just one more assassination bro I swear this will be the last one… btw, got any money? I know I said I wouldn’t ask but there’s this hospital right…Hamas all over it. Hizbollahs too. They dress like doctors but that’s just how they trick you

MBFC is a fundamentally flawed credibility gatekeeper. Lemmy.World loses credibility every day this bot continues to operate.

Absolutely. It’s hilarious that people care about fact checking enough to want to rate sources but apparently extend no skepticism whatsoever to these ratings. “Let’s just ask that one dude and go with whatever he says, I’m sure it’ll be fine”

@JustZ@lemmy.world IDF now “looking into” it. Do you believe the video now?

The video shows some guys standing around some pipes and then an exterior shot of an explosion. That’s accompanied by some text and audio. It’s posted on TikTok. As far as I can tell, the claims haven’t been independently verified, that is, confirmed by credible, factual reporting extrinsic to the video.

Ok but there are two stories you say are credible just below this, and they establish clear facts.

So two questions:

Do you believe this was posted by an IDF soldier, as reported by the Times of Israel?

Do you believe the video shows the Canada Well plant, as stated by both the original poster and a representative of the Canadian government?

If the answer to both of these is yes, what remaining reason is there to doubt the video? You say the “claims” haven’t been verified but no claim is needed. It is on video. Do you mean the claim that the facility was destroyed, and that the external shot was not of something else being destroyed?

I am not being obtuse here, I just really don’t understand what you mean

If it turns out to be legit, which I would stress - since it was posted by the IDF soldiers themselves* - seems likely: would you not agree that this is likely a war crime?

*some edits to add.

From the Times of Israel article about it:

In the video, posted by a soldier to Instagram and later circulated on X, troops can be seen rigging up the water facility, known as Canada Well, with explosives. Another clip shows the site being blown up.

The video was tagged with the caption: “Demolishing the water reservoir of Tel Sultan in honor of the Sabbath.”

The Canadian government, who built the plant, also agrees that the video shows it being destroyed: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-calls-for-probe-into-demolished-canadian-water-treatment-plant-in-gaza-1.7281666

Seems very unlikely an IDF soldier would post a video claiming to be destroying a facility, which we know exists, and the people who paid to build it would identify it was the same building, and it would turn out to not be in Gaza at all. It is almost certainly the plant discussed in these articles.

In fact, it is an act of genocide, since depriving the population of water is “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”

Maybe the water system was supplying the tunnels, which would make it a legit target.

Isn’t the main issue whether the facility was supplying the civilian population? What about proportionality?

it certainly flies in the face of other evidence like the fact that Israel lets new water infrastructure into Gaza all the time and new water desalinization plants have opened (and haven’t been destroyed) even just since the war began.

We spoke about this before. Here is the link to the facts again: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68969239

Half of Gaza’s water sites had been damaged or destroyed as of that report.

And here is the image of three specific examples again:

It certainly doesn’t “fly in the face of other evidence,” the evidence is all pointing in the same direction.

When we spoke about this previously, you speculated (based on “probability,” in your words) that the facilities were maybe collateral damage during an attack on Hamas fighters. In this case, we have the video footage. No Hamas fighters. Charges specifically placed on water infrastructure. No attempt to access or destroy a tunnel. This is simply naked evidence of an intentional attack on the necessities of life for the civilian population.

Have you watched the video yet?

I don’t have evidence of this but I believe the owner/operator of the site is pro Israel and this bleeds through into the ratings, which are not produced in any objective or repeatable fashion. It says Times of Israel has not failed any fact checks, but it clearly doesn’t investigate this in a systematic way. I personally reported one particularly egregious and obviously false headline some months back and never heard anything.

It lists the fact checks the Guardian failed (totally fair), but overall I would say most similar websites rank them highly for factual content and for good reason.

For stuff unrelated to Israel I think MBFC is pretty solid if a little unclear and opaque in it’s approach.