While I’ll agree that even focusing on votes is healthier than constantly worrying about how the terrible guy continued saying terrible things, there are better tactics than that available to us. If folks here want to worry about votes though, I’d recommend things that fight voter disenfranchisement, like ensuring polls have sufficient volunteers, or helping ensure people in line to vote will have enough time, food and water to wait out a long line.

(It should be noted though that it is unlikely he will be convicted, even if the Dems win, so don’t get your hopes too high.)

Did you read my comment? Here, I’ll help you.

I do not want anyone to vote for Trump, vote third party, or abstain. What I want is for them to understand that voting is the minimum they can do, and that they can and should protest the current and future admin’s policies regarding Israel until they stop enabling genocide, regardless of the color of the tie they wear.

Read that paragraph, then try again. Maybe with less antagonism, yeah?

A regular reminder to everyone here that they do not actually have to care what Trump says. You already know he’s shit. Focus on something healthier.

You can absolutely pressure Harris, though. Join a protest.

Trust me, I’m well aware of literally everything you’ve just said. I get told it on almost every comment I make here, and every time people make the same two big mistakes:

1. Limiting their thinking to votes.

2. Refusing to push Democrats left, because they’re scared it might hurt Harris’ election chances.^[1]

I am pushing against #2 in this thread first and foremost, and getting #1 out of your response as a result. Please, understand that I know that Democrats are better than Trump. Everybody knows that, and if you think I want people to vote against Harris you are misunderstanding me entirely.

I do not want anyone to vote for Trump, vote third party, or abstain. What I want is for them to understand that voting is the minimum they can do, and that they can and should protest the current and future admin’s policies regarding Israel until they stop enabling genocide, regardless of the color of the tie they wear.

If we let Democrats scare us with Trump or someone like him every year, nothing will change.

And why’s that on us? Why is it our job to toe a party line when said line means killing people en masse?

It’s supposed to be their job to represent us, not our job to kiss their asses. Stop letting the DNC use Trump as an excuse to do whatever they want; if they want to be more electable, maybe it’s on them to adopt a better platform.

Why is someone’s reluctance to vote for your preferred candidate more upsetting to you than said candidate’s choice to platform genocide?

If you’re so worried about Trump being elected, maybe you should push for Harris to adopt better policy so people are more comfortable voting for her, rather than shaming people for not wanting to vote for the lesser of two genocides.

Can we pack the court yet?

On the presidential ticket for 2024, yes, harm reduction is the only option. But I don’t have to like it, and it’s not gonna mean that I’m not going to criticize and protest the genocide she enables.

There’s more to politics than just voting in an undemocratic system.

The whole “genocide joe” narrative did not provide any benefit in Gaza,

Biden’s admin absolutely noticed the protests against him and it was because of that that we got a pause (however temporary) on some of the heavy ordnance sold to Israel. The uncommitted votes in the primaries did not go unnoticed either. Not to mention that absolutely none of us are suggesting Trump is a viable alternative to anyone (i.e. we are not discouraging voting against him), and that we’d protest just as fervently (if not more) if he did win.

All this however is placing the blame on us for standing up for what we believe in, and implicitly forgiving the Biden admin for the atrocities they enable — after all, if they wanted to secure their candidacy more, why not acquiesce? Everyone’s all ready to criticize the people protesting to save lives, but not so much prepared to criticize the people enabling the killing?

Still, let’s be generous and take this as true regardless. Once the election is over, are you willing to commit to joining us in protesting until the U.S. stops sending weapons to Israel, regardless of who wins?

And folks wonder why I’m not optimistic for a Harris admin.

I can’t understand how anyone could see a vote for her as anything other than harm reduction.

So if leftists really cared about Gaza, they’d… not protest the party currently in power? The one selling the bombs?

Because I don’t think you genuinely believe any leftist, tankie or otherwise, actually likes Trump. I think you just don’t like it when they protest Biden or Harris.

So people need to vehemently denounce Trump once per hour or else they must obviously be siding with him…?

Seriously though, isn’t it obvious? If you expect Trump to be terrible, why would you fly into a rage when he meets that expectation? By contrast, Biden is expected to be better than this, and yet isn’t.

Pressure is applied where it is most effective. That is not and will never be anyone from the Republican party, because they openly and obviously do not give a fuck about any of us.

^{(edited for kinder tone)}

Estimates of Palestinian deaths have long since exceeded tens of thousands. How you can believe that the October attacks could possibly have exceeded that is beyond me.

But you’ve already made up your mind. I don’t even know why you’re here.

stopping supporting anti hamas actions won’t stop the war… it will just lead to more innocent people dying

If you think more innocent people will die if Israel stops bombing Gaza into dust, then you haven’t been paying attention to what’s happening to Palestinians.

Everything Hamas has done, terrible as it is, pales in comparison to the tragedy and horror inflicted by the IDF.

but sounds like a reasonable amount for anyone except the most marginalized groups

I know several people for whom $167 per month would be a big problem. Considering how many people struggle to get by on incredibly low wages, with ever-increasing rent, I really don’t think it’s fair to suggest that this would only be a problem for “the most marginalized groups.”

And that’s all ignoring the fact that “being unable to afford medicine” is not a problem anyone in such a rich country should ever have to face, regardless of income. Frankly, I really don’t care if it upends industries; people’s lives are more important than that.

A whole lot of small but meaningful improvements… that nonetheless depress me on account of the fact that this is apparently the most we’re allowed to vote for. And they’re not even guaranteed in the least.

Still, I can at least keep going by remembering that this is a presidential race, and is thus among the least democratic aspects of the country, short of things like the Supreme Court. There are better, more impactful things for me to focus on.

This was always my biggest concern about voting Democrat in the coming election. I’ve since been convinced I should regardless – a realization of how little impact focusing on the presidency actually has was what changed my mind – but I could’ve been swayed far sooner if someone had provided me with a more reliable way to keep the DNC accountable back then.

To me, the Democrat party is failure by any standard bar the low one of “better than Republicans,” and that’s pathetic. I can’t be excited for any candidate they field unless I can be given good reason to finally trust them. And considering their sordid history, that’s gonna take a lot.

With you here. The title made it sound like a lot more than it actually was.