Inui [comrade/them]

Its not okay, but do they also warn about how much data Facebook, X, etc collect and share willingly with the US Govt? That’s the problem with most of these stories is people only care when its China specifically. As if the US doesn’t have a greater ability to destroy Canada if it ever had the incentive to do so. The framing is never ‘spy apps are bad’, just ‘this one spy app is bad’ when its the government saying it.

deleted by creator

I think you are a deeply unserious person who idolizes poverty by saying vegans making the choice are bad and people forced into are good. I also think, based on this conversation, that you hold no strong convictions that can’t be shaken out of you with a little bit of hardship and can’t contextualize any amount of self-sacrifice because of your obsession with veganism being a privileged position. I already told you that people who have no other option are not a target of criticism, but people like you who who use others as a scapegoat certainly are. I’m blocking you now though because this is going nowhere.

You literally asked me the question and are now chastising me for my answer. This is the “how do you know someone is vegan” joke. I pointed out self-preservation to point out that vegans don’t go around attacking poor people and don’t expect people to keep their principles in those situations. I made a choice I don’t expect other people to make. I point my criticisms at the people I know in real life who shop at the exact same stores I do and make similar amounts of money, but still use poor people as an excuse not to change their own behavior.

Yes and yes because I’ve been there.

Everyone is more privileged than someone. It’s obviously more privileged to be able to eat fresh vegetables vs. people having to eat bark in occupied countries. But most serious vegans will also tell you that if you’re on a desert island and your only way to survive is to kill and eat a pig (as ridiculous as the scenario is), you should do it, because we acknowledge self-preservation is real and valid.

Am I privileged if I can afford to eat Beyond Burgers every night but I eat rice and beans instead? What if I can’t afford those things, still eat rice and beans, but I tell people I’m vegan to avoid awkward social interactions? You’re making up a caricature of vegans in your head, comparing them to poor people who happen to not be able to afford meat, and then saying the latter is somehow a better person.

The option you presented is a poor non-vegan person vs. a wealthier vegan person. There are people in between these two things.

People aren’t vegan through limited choice. It’s a conscious decision. You might eat a plant-based diet because you can’t afford meat, but that doesn’t make you the same as someone who is choosing not to eat meat on purpose. You’re comparing someone who wants to be vegan with someone who doesn’t and saying one is superior/less annoying. They’re two different people.

There’s like two of us in here and we’re just downvoted no matter what we say lol.

I’m not saying you’re incorrect. But I want to point out that many people who concern troll about how difficult vegan diets are to be healthy on are also people who don’t question how unhealthy their current choices are when it comes to consuming soda, energy drinks, red meat, other snacks, etc. Some people do, but most people who ask me about nutrition are not people who count their own calories or try to balance all their meals. It’s just as easy to be unhealthy as a non-vegan.

Do those other animals have the biology that allows them to subsist on other foods and the higher thinking required to question the morality of their actions?

Generally, no. You might see it in grocery store labeling as a tactic to signal the food is okay for vegans but to try and not turn off someone who goes “ick” if something specifically says its vegan. But it’s because “vegan” means the same thing in dietary terms. Vegan food is suitable for both vegans and people on plant-based diets, because the other things vegans are concerned with aren’t related to diet so aren’t relevant to the context.

I don’t know what point you’re trying to make. The same argument applied to different contexts is perfectly valid.

Plant-based is the label for people who follow a vegan diet (plant-based diet) but not a vegan lifestyle like avoiding leather.

We’re arguing for the rights of animals over the rights of people who want to take them away. I just told you there’s no debate that killing an animal is killing an animal. How do you disagree with that? I never said ‘murder’, that’s trying to muddy the waters. The abortion debate is about whether or not abortion is killing a living being. Slaughtering animals is objectively so.

Expecting vegans to cook meat for you is a special kind of privilege. I wish carnists would stop asking everyone else to appeal to their special diets. /s

Look at almost any thread with similar comments it’s mostly people saying how much they love meat vs. anyone saying anything about them being vegan. Vegans politely mention their diet in real life more than other people because it limits the places you can go out to eat, and they don’t want to make things awkward. They don’t want to show up to your house and refuse to eat the steak you cooked since they didn’t mention it beforehand or reject the leather boots you bought them for their birthday. It’s better to be upfront about it and people take offensive to this.

Which is a non-existent strawman.

I edited my comment after I made it, but you have to kill an animal to get meat. There’s no debate around fetal development or rights of the mother vs. the child. There’s no religion involved. If you argue that torturing or killing animals doesn’t hurt them, you’re arguing in bad faith. Even people who eat meat won’t deny it. They just don’t care. You could just as easily frame vegans as the abortion activists surrounded by anti-abortion folks.

And the context is completely different. To get meat, you have to kill or harm an animal. There’s no wiggle room there.

Veganism has never been about avoiding all animal products 100%. Only as far as possible.

To put it another way, would you feel responsible if the person who installed your solar panels drove an oversized truck in their personal life?