thanks for the input on the last post, next time i’ll make an actually interpretable one in like a year or something, or next time reddit fucks up

  • peanuts4life@beehaw.orgEnglish
    30·
    9 months ago

    As a cis, heteronormative male, I appreciate this community. I’m not trans, but I relate. I have dreams that I’m a woman, I read nothing but girl love manga, every drawing or painting of myself I’ve done I’m a woman, I’m migrating from windows to Linux, everyone I used to tour with back in the day is trans.

      • peanuts4life@beehaw.orgEnglish
        6·
        9 months ago

        Well, I tried, but my preferred distro (vanilla os) had some catastrophic installation issues, and I reinstalled Windows on my main a couple weeks ago out of frustration.

        I think this means I’m back in the closet?

      • peanuts4life@beehaw.orgEnglish
        9·
        9 months ago

        This is a really excellent pastebin! I sort of posted my comment facetiously (I present as cis, but I identify as nonbinary.)

        But, it’s not totally untrue. I’ve been asked by trans friends, “when are you going to come out?” too many times not to wonder if I am somehow deep, deep in the closet.

        If I could, I would be both, and change appearance at will. I know some of this is that non binary part of me, and some of this is simply that I find women attractive. I’m the sort of obsessive person who wants to become whatever I find interesting. It’s rooted somewhat in objectivication, not so much personal validation.

        I don’t really feel dysphoric with my body, but I’d love that button.

        So I’ll continue to lurk, and maybe one day I’ll realize I was in the closet all along!

        • Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          2·
          9 months ago

          Oh cool! That’s like, gender fluid, adrogynous I think? Non binary describes a whole array of genders, like its an awfully huge tent. But the labels are just there for fun or if you find them helpful. I think a large portion of trans people have similar obsessions 😅 For many many trans people, Euphoria is a better indicator than Dysphoria. What makes you happy, and giddy and excited? It’s not closeted to understand yourself as a non binary gender, but it might be closeted to present as if that identity isn’t present at all. I’d be hypocritical to be purist about this. I’m a trans female, but I present as… Sort of (gender) queer? You can tell I’m a bit fruity, but would not likely assume I’m trying to present as female.

          • peanuts4life@beehaw.orgEnglish
            1·
            9 months ago

            Hmm, I think I experience something like euphoria (maybe excitement?) when I dress in feminine clothes or take on feminine roles.

            When I was a child, I was very cross with the whole concept of gender. I thought for a long time that intersex people were more common (I assumed genitals were more random at a young age); the fact I was sort of stuck with the “boys” really annoyed me. I wanted to do everything with everyone, and I really despised being forced into a social box. I would dream 33/33/33 as a girl/boy/other, and often characters would have mixtures of primary and secondary sexual characteristics.

            I think I’m sort of non gendered, I suppose. In my mid 20s I started meeting lots of trans musicians, and I really dug their music / art. I felt like it really spoke to me, but what’s odd is I didn’t feel like I wanted to transition. I just wanted gender not to exist.

            I’m supportive, of course, of my friends transitioning. For me, I’m not sure why I want to press the button. I think it’s a desire to be everything, or to have those experiences I missed out of growing up.

            It’s all at odds with my sexuality, which developed to be pretty conventional, but I think that’s just because it’s convenient and easily reenforced. If I pressed myself, I could probably be pansexual. However, I have a partner now who’s great, so I’m not really interested in experimenting.

            I know I conflate gender and sex at some points here. Sorry for the ramble.

            Thank you for being kind 😊😊😊😊

        • reev@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
          5·
          9 months ago

          You’d need an excel spreadsheet with all responses if this was multi-choice and strawpoll saves responses like that.

        • Anamana@feddit.de
          3·
          9 months ago

          True, you would need a page with the listed results sorted by participant. Quite easy to calculate if you have that tho.

        • Bonehead@kbin.social
          3·
          9 months ago

          It kinda is. 341 identify as straight. 525 identify as cis. 341/525 = ~65% of respondents who identify as cis are both cis and straight. Out of all those who responded, approximately 18.5% of respondents are both cis AND straight.

          We don’t have the fine detail, but this is enough for a rough estimate.

          Edit: is everyone happy now?

          • newIdentity@sh.itjust.works
            9·
            9 months ago

            You can’t do it this way. It would work if we would know that everyone who is straight also identifies as being cis, but that’s obviously not the case.

            Also the way you calculated it would be 65% of people who identify as straight under the condition that a person is straight. Not 65% of respondents.

            But again, that’s assuming that everyone who is straight is cis.

            • Bonehead@kbin.social
              2·
              9 months ago

              We don’t have the fine detail, but this is enough for a rough estimate.

              That’s all this is…a rough estimate. If we knew more details, we could refine that estimate. But then things get muddy when you consider what a “straight” relationship means to a cis person when only one person in the relationship is cis. So it comes down to what you want. Do you want a rough idea of the ratio, or do you want to get bogged down in the details and debate about what should be included?

              • newIdentity@sh.itjust.works
                4·
                9 months ago

                But what you calculated isn’t even possible. You calculated that more people are cis and straight than there are cis people. That alone is enough to disprove you.

                Also the way you calculated it would be 65% of people who identify as straight under the condition that a person is straight. Not 65% of respondents.

          • themarty27@lemmy.sdf.org
            8·
            9 months ago

            Sorry, but WTF is this math. Cis people, regardless of sexual orientation, are less than 65% of respondents. Straight people, regardless of gender identity, are also less than 65%. How come people who are both at the same time would be more? You are saying that e.g. cis straight people are more than straight people in total.

            What your math gives is what share of cis people are straight, if we assume that all straight people are cis.

            • Bonehead@kbin.social
              1·
              9 months ago

              if we assume that all straight people are cis.

              Why wouldn’t that be a reasonable assumption? If you identify as non-cis, then you likely identity as non-straight. Which would mean that if you identify as straight, you likely identify as cis. There might be some outliers of non-cis people that identify as straight, but they are statistically insignificant.

              Otherwise, I’ve edited my comment for clarity, since people seemed to be having trouble extrapolating the conclusion.

              • themarty27@lemmy.sdf.org
                1·
                9 months ago

                The keyword is likely. I agree that there is some correlation, but we can’t know for sure how strong the connection is unless we are given the numbers, and their lack is the reason for this math in the first place. If we assume that all straight people are cis (which I doubt), then we need not do any math - the number of straight cis people is the number of straight people. If we assume no correlation at all (which I also doubt), then we get a more reasonable number. If we assume some correlation, then we just get a similar number, but the math gets a lot messier.

              • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                2·
                9 months ago

                Other people have already said a lot, but I’ll fill in some more of the calculations. So, according to the poll, we only know that

                P(Cis) = 0.28

                and

                P(Straight) = 0.19

                Now, what we are looking after is P(Cis ∧ Straight). Since we don’t know if cis people on this sub are more or less likely to be straight, there’s no way to calculate this without making assumptions, but generally in statistics for a rough estimate we can assume statistical independence. In that case we get

                P(Cis ∧ Straight) = P(Cis) * P(Straight) = 0.28 * 0.19 = 0.06

                which would mean about 6% of people are cis and straight. That is probably underestimating it, because it is pretty likely that cis people are more likely to be straight, but from this data, there is no way to know.

                Now, to what you calculated: instead of writing it in absolutes, you can rewrite it in probabilities:

                P(Straight) / P(Cis)

                In and of itself this gives us no information. But again, if we assume this time that all straight people are cis, which is a steeper assumption, we get the conditional probability:

                P(Straight) / P(Cis) = P(Cis ∧ Straight) / P(Cis) = P(Straight | Cis) = 0.65

                This gives us that assuming all straight people are cis, if you meet someone who is cis, there’s a 65% chance they are also straight. Which is interesting, but not what we’re looking for

                wow, that turned out a bunch of nerd shit, what I actually meant to say was

                :3

      • themarty27@lemmy.sdf.org
        11·
        9 months ago

        It’s not possible to answer that precisely with the data available, but we can make an estimate.

        43.3% of respondents are straight. 58.4% are cisgender. If we assume there’s no correlation between being straight and being cis, then 43.3% of cis people will also be straight. That gives us 43.3% × 58.4% = 25.3% of respondents being both cis and straight. 25.3% of 950 is 240 people.

        • newIdentity@sh.itjust.works
          3·
          9 months ago

          So uhh, just for fun I calculated it through with every branch of the tree and drew it. It’s off by 00,01% so the total of everything combined is 99,99%

          signal-2023-09-25-21-19-30-627

        • newIdentity@sh.itjust.works
          2·
          9 months ago

          Just to clarify for others: “no correlation” means that they are not related to each other.

          So we’re calculating the probability of us picking a random person that is both cis and straight. This means the probability always stays the same since it doesnt depend on any other probability

        • barsoap@lemm.ee
          1·
          9 months ago

          If we assume there’s no correlation between being straight and being cis

          There’s actually a ton of correlation between cis and straight while there’s tons of correlation between trans and gay. In a nutshell identity and attraction are independent biological factors: There’s proportionally about as many gay cis folks as there’s straight trans folks, or differently speaking with trans folks the attraction follows the statistical distribution of the assigned-at-birth sex.

          It’s enbies and inter folks I think were all bets are off regarding attraction, would have to look at those studies again and please don’t ask me where to find them I have no idea it’s been a while.

          Given that I’d ballpark cishets at about 40%, thereabouts.

  • Deepus@lemm.ee
    7·
    9 months ago

    So im a little out of the loop here, n the info doent help, what exactly is this community? And what is 196 in reference to?

    • Maven (famous)@lemmy.world
      9·
      9 months ago

      195 was a social experiment on Reddit with the only rule being you have to post before you go. Originally done as a college project the subreddit was shut down when the creators graduated. 196 grew from the grave of 195 with the same rules. Eventually reddit did a fuck up tho and 196 moved here.

    • PokeFan28@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      1·
      9 months ago

      Its a very inclusive and trans supportive group originating from reddit (r/196). One of the few shitposting subs not overrun by negativity. As a result it has a lot of trans people obviously. Idk about the name either tho lol

  • Peachy [they/them] @lemmy.blahaj.zoneMEnglish
    1·
    9 months ago

    I’m curious about the decision to separate non-binary and trans /genuine

    Like, were people able to click both? If so, for future surveys… (if you decide, or anyone else in the community reading this who wants to run a different one) those who mark both non-binary and trans, the graph should list how many of trans people also identified as nb. I just think data is really interesting, just want to clarify that I’m not upset or anything (people imo tend to assume any criticism, pos or neg comes from a place of big feelings)

    • euphoric_cat@lemmy.blahaj.zoneOP
      2·
      9 months ago

      yes they could click both, also same that’s why I (tried to) made this :D and don’t worry, I made that poll at like 4am and only realised how bad I fucked up in the morning